InsectNet forum

The more I think about it, the more skeptical I become that niclasi is manufactured by UV exposure of a normal green OV. UV light can destroy dyes and pigments, depending on their chemical structure. But for this to work in the OV niclasi case, the normal green color would have to be due to combination of a blue structural color and a UV-labile yellow pigment. If the normal green color is strictly a structural phenomenon, UV should have no effect on it -- UV should not do anything to the physical structure of wing scales. Does anyone know the true origin of the green color (pigment, structural, or a combination of the two)? it may not have been investigated and published. And I find it hard to believe that UV could selectively destroy a yellow pigment without having some visible effect on the black areas of the bug... why wouldn't they fade to brown upon strong UV exposure? Then there's the lack of electricity on Rannonga as Chuck pointed out. And if sunlight can do it, why did the blue form only appear recently?

But bothering me more about the UV origin theory is the potential of selective breeding. If breeding can produce an all-gold colored euphorion, is it so much of a stretch to think that one could breed a blue OV? No one knows what color-producing potential might be lurking in the OV genome, just not commonly "turned on". And there is clearly the potential for blue formation in other birdwings (see urvilleanus, aesacus, caelestis, and there's even a bit of blue visible on most male Trogonoptera).

Niclasi's appearance only on Rannonga is suggestive, and there's this: Has anyone ever seen a flightworn niclasi? All the (admittedly few) examples I've seen have been pristine, and presumably reared in captivity.

It's quite a mystery, no? Are they real wild butterflies, or just farm animals, or products of manufacture using UV light?

jh

Is it common knowledge that Ornithoptera species typically have structural color, as in Morphos?

I'm sure there's some structural color involved, just looking at how the hue can shift with viewing angle. But there can also be underlying pigmentation, I think. That's not the case with the blue Morphos, in which the color is all structural.

jh

Wow. Great analysis by Dr Hyatt.

1. So if I look at the green on a OV rubianus, and see a sheen or shift, it’s structural?

2. When was the first niclasi reported? Aside from which, the number of Lep collectors who have gone to Rannonga is low; even then it’s no guarantee they’d see it. Remember Tennent said he spent eight weeks in San Christobal and that there were no Polyura Jupiter- till I tossed a fresh one on the table. And I scrapped the description of Graphium sarpedon being rare on Guadalcanal, fortunately prior to publication, because they are not- in an area well covered by top level Lep professionals!


OV rubianus is not bred, it’s ranched. So no cross breeding, no selective breeding.

I had flight worn (not bad) niclasi. Damn I wish I’d not gotten rid of them. I don’t think I have photos but I’ll look.

I remember that the original thread about UV induced 'niclasi' had photos of specimens with 'bleached' abdomens. Presumably the UV light exposure turned them pale.

Adam.

The whole undersides of the wings in the fakes shown were clearly blued, it was horrible.

Ornithoptera male abdomens lose color naturally too. In nature they are bright banana yellow like a beacon. You can’t miss them. After death and over time they pale.

I have various priamus ssp- which would be the cheapest now to experiment on?

Chuck wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2025 1:49 am The whole undersides of the wings in the fakes shown were clearly blued, it was horrible.

Ornithoptera male abdomens lose color naturally too. In nature they are bright banana yellow like a beacon. You can’t miss them. After death and over time they pale.

I have various priamus ssp- which would be the cheapest now to experiment on?

I tried 253.7 nm 39W UV +365nm 7w UV. Nothing change after 1 night. Some people argue that 405nm with 35w help. I have not tried that.