What has changed recently with importing?

[daffodildeb]

When I say “recently” in the title, I mean within about 12+ years since I last held an import permit. At that time the permit was required, but a new policy required that you also had to use a broker to clear shipments, which added so much to the cost that I let my permit expire and didn’t import anymore. I would now like to deal with some overseas companies on NON-CITES leps. I know I need a new permit (or a renewal), and I assume I would have to fill out the form to clear a shipment. Do I have to go through a broker, or can I do it myself? Do I have to take the box somewhere for inspection? Also, if I want to ship a box of assorted junk bugs, does each species have to be listed separately? I tried to get this information from the Atlanta office, as directed by the permit-issuing office, but just got a recording to leave my number for a return call. I never got a callback.

[wollastoni]

The US legislation is sometimes totally crazy...
Here in Europe, an amateur collector doesn't need any import permits for non-protected specimens.

[Paul K]

The US legislation is sometimes totally crazy...
Here in Europe, an amateur collector doesn't need any import permits for non-protected specimens.

Same in Canada, hopefully stays this way.
I’m not really buying the specimens but it’s much more easy to bring back collected material.

[Chuck]

The best place to start is read the most current version of Federal Code of Regulations on wildlife import.

It was too much hassle to legally import, so I quit my license about a decade ago and no longer import. Don't know about the broker, that would be new, or it could be just rumor, check FCR. I used to be that every species had to be listed on a separate line on form, I can't imagine that would change.

[lepman1256]

Currently dealing with all this right now. Permit needed...$100/year. Edec form has to be filled out. Each species needs listing off their provided species list, or general genus label, which I think makes the inspection take longer. Inspection fee is $100 per shipment. If you don't know the proper port of entry, you can apply for a port exception permit to help it be inspected wherever it comes in at...another $100 per year. The broker fees can be applied at times, might be it needs to get to a certain dollar amount, and of course there is customs fees of about I believe 10%. Hope this helps.

[Jshuey]

I just filled out a 3-177 form, and after a discussion with a FWS agent in Miami, just identified them as "Non-cites BUTT" - ~ 60 specimens.

This was for little brown things, but it seems to have satisfied FWS.

John

[jellybean]

I just filled out a 3-177 form, and after a discussion with a FWS agent in Miami, just identified them as "Non-cites BUTT" - ~ 60 specimens.

This was for little brown things, but it seems to have satisfied FWS.

John

John,

Was that all you had to do? Perhaps you were bringing those butterflies through customs as an Accredited Scientist or as Accompanying Personal Baggage.

Or, were you doing an import or export as a shipment, either for personal use or for commercial purposes?

While we are on the subject, are there any US citizens able to successfully get FWS clearance for dead non CITES insects via the mail? Mail is still an option per the 3-177 Form.

[Miguel]

I don´t have problems when I make an exchange or If I buy butterflies,the thing is that when I receive a parcel from outside the EU I have to pay taxes even if the butterflies come with no commercial value.

Also I have to say that I have not problems to send or to receive lepidoptera from Russia .

[Jshuey]

Jellybean,

These were from a Latin American collector , shipped through the postal services to my home address. I was not even aware that they were coming, and FWS ended up with the bugs. They called me, I told then that I didn't know what most of the species were (true - these were un-IDed Hesperiidae that were supposed to be "very interesting"). In consultation with the agent, I filled out the 3-177 and emailed a copied to them.

Three things to note
- these bugs had all their paperwork to legally export from Peru included in the shipment.
- If I had known they were being shipped, I would have filled out a 3-177 in advance, sent a copy to FWS in Miami and to the shipper, and it would have been on file on both ends.
- No commercial value. These are little brown bugs (for the most part) and that will end up in my holdings. They included 5 "new to me" species and one that is probably a new species (I already had a short series of that one).

John

[Chuck]

Jellybean,

These were from a Latin American collector , shipped through the postal services to my home address. I was not even aware that they were coming, and FWS ended up with the bugs. They called me, I told then that I didn't know what most of the species were (true - these were un-IDed Hesperiidae that were supposed to be "very interesting"). In consultation with the agent, I filled out the 3-177 and emailed a copied to them.

Three things to note
- these bugs had all their paperwork to legally export from Peru included in the shipment.
- If I had known they were being shipped, I would have filled out a 3-177 in advance, sent a copy to FWS in Miami and to the shipper, and it would have been on file on both ends.
- No commercial value. These are little brown bugs (for the most part) and that will end up in my holdings. They included 5 "new to me" species and one that is probably a new species (I already had a short series of that one).

John

I believe the line-item requirement depends on the recipient and the USFWS inspector. I had one inspector go nuts because I had done as John did, lumping unknown Hesperidae on one line, unknown Lycaenidae on another, etc. Things got settled out once I explained that they weren't described individually at the species level on each line because quite simply, it would take years of research to figure out if they were known taxa or not; he calmed down and let it through but warned me that subsequent importations had to ID down to the species, per line. YMMV.

[daffodildeb]

Sorry I haven't responded to your comments. I didn't get notice that anyone had replied, even though it was supposedly in my settings. My experience with FWS before I let my permit lapse some 12 years ago was essentially the same as "Jshuey." I got assorted butterflies and moths, of a bunch of different species, and the Dallas inspector I dealt with essentially cleared them under a VS (for Various Species) label. Then he retired, and the next Dallas inspector wouldn't do it that way beyond the first time with him, which was when I heard "my guy" had retired. Then the broker nonsense started, which added a few hundred dollars to my costs, and I gave up importing. Apparently a broker isn't needed now? I still haven't heard anything from the ATL office. Yes, Chuck, I read the regulations, but they're clear as mud. Judging by the responses in this thread, I'm not the only one who has had imports cleared in a variety of ways! (I am no longer in Dallas' jurisdiction, having moved out of Texas a decade ago.)

I'm still confused. I had one friend in Florida tell me he imports all the time, no permit, and no declarations. He hasn't been caught...yet.

[lepman1256]

Dealing with what I thought was, and has been cleared, shipment. New officer is picking apart the declaration form for minor omissions on it. Also wants pictures of invoices, labels, waybills(regular and house), and have them all in pdf form. All was supplied on the initial clearance, so it basically is double the work. It needs getting done as no other shipments can be inspected/cleared until this is at "accepted" status. Gotta love the USFW.

[vabrou]

[size=150]daffodildeb, apparently you haven't searched this subject in this forum nor many other worldwide such forums. Here is a recent link in insectnet forum, read it, you may learn something: Bottom line = unless you are engaged in a full time commercial official business of selling insects, YOU DON"T NEED ANY PERMITS WHATSOEVER TO SEND OR RECEIVE INSECTS in or out of the USA, nor have you ever been required to do so.............. Occasional insect sales by hobbyist is not an official business. I have shipped and received far more than 700,000 insects in/out of the USA over the past 60 years. If you have been paying attention the recent US Supreme court decision which has just unanimously outlawed the decades of attempts by the acronym agency 'ATF' attempting to outlaw gun ownership by US citizens. link I mentioned - viewtopic.php?t=1564&sid=74f0e9c261a6bf ... eadbbcc886 This means that all of the ever expanding acronym U.S. government agencies, e.g. FBI, CIA, IRS, FWS, USDA, ATF, US Postal Service, US Forest Service, on and on and on, do not have any authority to make any such laws or regulations upon the citizens of the U.S. There will soon be many more US Supreme court decisions specifically individually addressing each and all of these similar acronym bureaucracies in the US government based upon the very same arguments just handed down unanimously by the US Supreme court. Bottom line, only the US Congress has the authority to make and enforce any and all such regulations and laws upon citizens of the USA, and so far they have not. If you believe otherwise you have been an uninformed victim of elitist anecdotal BS, or are uneducated regarding the 'hows and whys' of our governing constitution, and/or not paying attention to current events. These all-encompassing 'copy and past' regulations across 200 countries of the world are all just a tiny part of a worldwide corrupt attempt to create a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT which began over 40 years ago, the goal of which is to control everyone and everything on earth. WAKE UP!!! Want to know what happens when governments fall victim to communist and socialist governments, just look at all those countries existing today worldwide? In the US there are currently nearly three million federal employees, but add to that the numbers of state government workers for 50 states, 3,143 county and parish government agency workers, plus an additional 100 county-equivalents in U.S. territories, and unauthorized local self-appointed agencies and governing boards, then the numbers are mind-boggling. Remember what I have said publicly in past decades: NEVER, EVER CALL, SPEAK TO, OR ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL BUSINESS ACTIVITIES, OR RARE SPECIMENS YOU HAVE DISCOVERED, or specific data to locate such rarities WITH ANY GOVERNMENT OR UNIVERSITY EMPLOYEE FOR ANY REASONS WHATSOEVER. TO DO SO WILL RESULT IN YOUR EVENTUAL DEMISE, and/or financial penalties for you. Beyond making these suggestions, I can't fix STUPID. GOOD LUCK, your gonna need it. THINK BEFORE YOU LEAP, AND HANG UP THAT DAMN PHONE, and more importantly DON'T E-MAIL ANYONE about such matters, and DON"T EVER DISCUSS THESE MATTERS ON SOCIAL MEDIA, like so many novices do. LIMIT YOUR PUBLIC PERSONA TO OFFICIAL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH aspect of your activities. REMEMBER GOOGLE is WATCHING AND SAVING EVERY WORD YOU HAVE OR WILL POST PUBLICLY OR PRIVATELY, EVEN IF YOU DON'T SPECIFICALLY USE GOOGLE. [/size]

[Chuck]

^^ Vernon, you are absolutely right.

BUT you can beat the rap but not the ride. That's part of the game. That SCOTUS ruling has the potential straighten out government- but it will not happen voluntarily. And the plaintiff in that case was bankrolled for millions of dollars.

If USFWS elects to seize $1000 of anything, sure you can fight it, and all the way to SCOTUS. Do you have the money? A lawyer is going to want over $1000 just to start with...so at that point you're even and beyond it you're losing money.

Government plays this game all the time. The other part of the game is called "seized for evidence" which means they take the laptop you need, your insect collection, your phone that you need to call a lawyer, etc. And in five years you MIGHT get that stuff back.

[mothman27]

Opening back up this can of worms, lol.

I recently got my USFWS import/export license. My reasoning was primarily to import specimens (more than just a few), and be legally permitted to resell specimens online. According to the USFWS website, hobbyists who are re-selling are considered commercial.

I'm familiar with the 3-177 form.
My question is regarding the physical inspection. I was under the impression that a customs broker was optional, considering I have an import license and will be filing the 3-177 online, as well as having a copy sent with the specimens. I began to fill the 3-177 online (eDoc is now preferred) but a "bonded location for inspection" is required. I am unsure what to put here. I have already listed the port. Do I need a broker? What service would they provide if I've already obtained a license and filled out the paperwork? If one IS required, where should I look for one?

Help?

[Chuck]

This is a can of worms, and you probably need to get it IN WRITING from USFWS.

10+ years ago, it would have to be hand-carried through a designated port for inspection, or shipped to an inspection office. Institutions could file post-receipt, but you're not an institution. There were caveats, like bringing through a non-designated port (airport) but this had to be pre-approved.

A "bonded location" is a bonded warehouse, basically an place to bring stuff into USA and have it looked at later; typically used in IT and other manufacturing companies to store parts and components, and pay the import tax only when you take them out to use. You can search Wiki for bonded location / bonded warehouse.

Those locations are run by brokers. Beyond that US GOV has been pushing the mandatory use of brokers for a number of imports, and I think wildlife may fall under that. You'll have to research. The benefit to USFW of forcing wildlife imports to a broker is that the broker then handles the shipment, delivery to their inspection, and forwarding to you....of course, there's a cost to this, and it's not cheap; the brokers have flat fees and incremental fees.

HTH.

Chuck

[lepman1256]

USFW does give you hoops to jump through, but they are spelled out in your application for a import/export permit. Before a shipment hits the U.S. you need to notify the courier (FedEx or DHL) of its arrival. send them picks of documents such as declaration form, waybill number, box pic, health certificate, invoice, and possible others. Most inspections get done at or near their hubs. If you list the wrong one, a USFW representative will get back to you to change it on your Edoc (declaration form) and resubmit. I think what might slow down the clearing of a shipment is when the exact species is not listed on their dropdown list, so you have to go with a (genus name ?). Makes the officer have to check out the species as per your provided invoice. Bonding is done, with a small fee added to your custom fees. If all is done correctly, most shipments clear within 3-4 days.

[x106x]

I have a eDoc that's been pending for well over a month. The dropdown list is super annoying- you you put something generic like "non-cites butterflies" and then try to actually list the genus or common name or anything, it automatically removes the tag and it says that not having the code will delay the shipment. Which do they want? Generic code or the specific name without the code?

Also, how do you provide them (courier or customs) those documents? Ask the shipper to send pictures of the package before they send it and then email all those to them? Oh! And I had to "authorize a request for overtime processing and payment of overtime fees." Since it was coming into the Port of New York. The hell?

I'm an artist, not a reseller, but being able to import the popular bugs I use frequently would allow me to keep my prices reasonable (and we all need *something* reasonably priced right about now...amirite?) Any commissions or one offs I just purchase from US resellers.

jen

[kevinkk]

Every time I read these posts, I am reminded why I don't bother. I'd like some beetle species, but I don't think it's worth the trouble, but that's my opinion. The issues are why things are expensive, and it doesn't matter if you're eating the dead bugs, what you're doing with them doesn't matter, and
from what I have seen, the market is flooded with insect items of all kinds, if you want cheap bugs, catch them yourself. (In your back yard, because
it's expensive out in the field.) I have no more sympathy for a reseller, an artist, or a fellow collector, there are no extenuating circumstances.
Go to the trouble of importing and mucking it up with the feds, charge what you want.

[x106x]

That's great for you, go collect in your backyard. That's not at all what this post is about.

I see that between the conspiracy theories, opinions that aren't helpful, the smug, I know it all but figure it out yourself, holier-than-thou attitudes, this forum is like every other forum/hobby/business online. Yay for the internet- where normally okay people get in front of a keyboard and turn into d*cks. This is not directed at anyone specific- but if you think it might be about you, it probably is.

Thank you to the people who actually are helpful. I appreciate it.