Papilio toboroi

[chrisw]

Papilio toboroi straatmani male PNG


Papilio toboroi toboroi female PNG

[Chuck]

Some more info on Chilasa toboroi viewtopic.php?p=3541&hilit=toboroi#p3541

Chris, do your data labels have more specific locations?

AFAIK, nominate toboroi occurs only in Bougainville, which is now an autonomous area of PNG. C. toboroi straatmani occurs in the political Solomon Islands (note that Bougainville is geographically and culturally part of Solomon Islands.)

Thus, I'm wondering about Chris's straatmani from PNG; if it's from Bougainville PNG, it should be the nominate if from PNG. It does look like ssp straatmani.

GBIF map shows a record from Halmahera (I doubt this is correct) and one a couple hundred KM from Lae PNG, where there is only water. https://www.gbif.org/species/4692142

[chrisw]

Chuck this is what is on the data labels for each.

P. t. straatmani Kieta, North Solomon Province, PNG

P. t. toboroi Burka Island, North Solomon Province, PNG

[Chuck]

Chuck this is what is on the data labels for each.

P. t. straatmani Kieta, North Solomon Province, PNG

P. t. toboroi Burka Island, North Solomon Province, PNG

That's interesting! Very!

It's "Buka" Island. "North Solomon Province" is the old name for Bougainville, Buka, and other small islands.

Kieta is on the east coast of Bougainville Island, about 1/3 of the way up the island from Solomon Islands. If you specimen label is correct, and certainly it looks like ssp straatmani, I'm shocked that the ssp would be on Bougainville at all.

Buka Island is off the NW tip of Bougainville. You can almost throw a stone from Buka to Bougainville. So if the labels are correct, it's also surprising that little Buka Passage could separate the two ssp. Or, that both ssp occur on Bougainville.

[adamcotton]

Sadly, I suspect that the data is erroneous, for any one of many reasons.

Adam.

[Chuck]

Sadly, I suspect that the data is erroneous, for any one of many reasons.

Adam.

Occam's Razor would suggest that.

That said, I did find a new ssp of Satyrid in Solomon Islands, separated by only a few KM from a larger island.

And Bougainville's shoreline is nice low jungle, while the mountains rise to 13,000 ft. So there would be several plausible scenarios.

The more I learn the more I realize that nothing is concrete, and the more ignorant I feel.

[adamcotton]

Perhaps, if these were old IFTA specimens, they got straatmani from a dealer in the Solomons and put PNG data on them, it wouldn't surprise me, but that's pure speculation.

That said, I did find a new ssp of Satyrid in Solomon Islands, separated by only a few KM from a larger island.

Indeed, even a few kilometres can isolate species or subspecies, even for normally relatively strong fliers. I suppose they don't generally want to fly out to sea. Having said that, I seem to remember there are old records of 'migrations' over water for some species.

Adam.

[Chuck]

Indeed, even a few kilometres can isolate species or subspecies, even for normally relatively strong fliers. I suppose they don't generally want to fly out to sea. Having said that, I seem to remember there are old records of 'migrations' over water for some species.

Adam.

Throughout the Pacific it's very common to see Euploea flying around far out to sea. One million Danaus plexippus fly over 100km of Lake Ontario every year from Ontario CA to NY during the migration. And I've heard of various species, including Sphingidae, that sometimes can be found in Britain, so they must fly over some distance of water.

Papilio though don't seem to be regular distance flyers. Ornithoptera priamus urvilleanus hasn't been discovered to make the jump from Guadalcanal to Makira, and they are pretty strong fliers with great ability to sail on the winds.

Ultimately, it probably is mis-labeling. I wonder who wants to go to Bougainville and do a survey.

[kevinkk]

As far as butterflies flying over water, I've never forgotten the monarch I saw out whale watching in Monterey, the butterfly was flying low, hit the water, and I figured- that butterfly is finished- but it pulled itself out of the water and continued on...west