Moving/ downsizing, donating collection, books, getting old

[58chevy]

It seems that everybody wants to downsize when they get older. On the contrary, I plan to upsize (get a bigger house) to accommodate my growing insect collection and other hobby items. I have considered donating the collection to a local museum, but I intend to hang onto it until I'm no longer able to take care of it. If I donate too soon, I'm worried that I'll regret it. Some of the comments in this thread confirm that thought.
What's the story about McGuire? What caused the loss of funding? Are they in danger of being forced to shut down and if so, what do they plan to do with all the specimens?

[kevinkk]

but I intend to hang onto it

Great choice! I fully understand the anxiety about the future and disposition of treasures, but I'm keeping it all as long as possible, I didn't come this far and go to this much work to die alone with nothing in a facility. I have enough regrets about lifestyle and having to start over ..multiple times.

[Chuck]

It seems that everybody wants to downsize when they get older. On the contrary, I plan to upsize ...
What's the story about McGuire? What caused the loss of funding? Are they in danger of being forced to shut down and if so, what do they plan to do with all the specimens?

We have no choice to downsize. We live in the highly taxed, wrecked economy of NY. So housing prices are lower than most areas. And we are going to FL, where 71,000 NYers moved to- in 2022 alone. Over 1 Million people have left NY in four years. In short, homes in FL are expensive because of demand, and homes in NY do not command equal prices. Ergo, we can't buy in FL what we have in NY.

McGuire Center's benefactor, William McGuire, had some financial and legal issues. I have been told that this funding source for McGuire Center had dried up. MC is operating, though there appears to have been some changes in the recent past. AFAIK they are not in danger of being shut down. But I'm not privy to the goings on.

[Kirkwilliams]

'Even when one is no longer attached to things, it's still something to have been attached to them; because it was always for reasons which other people didn't grasp ... Well, now that I'm a little too weary to live with other people, these old feelings, so personal and individual, that I had in the past, seem to me - it's the mania of all collectors - very precious. I open my heart to myself like a sort of vitrine, and examine one by one all those love affairs of which the world can know nothing. And of this collection to which I'm now much more attached than to my others, I say to myself, rather as Mazarin said of his books, but in fact without the least distress, that it will be very tiresome to have to leave it all.'
Charles Swann
Marcel Proust, Cities of the Plain


This was the intro from the book Hare with Amber Eyes. A book about a collector of Japanese netsukes.

I found it very applicable to all of us who have butterfly collections and no idea what to do with them, except keep collecting! It is a problem with no solution I can see.

[jhyatt]

This was the intro from the book Hare with Amber Eyes. A book about a collector of Japanese netsukes.

I found it very applicable to all of us who have butterfly collections and no idea what to do with them, except keep collecting! It is a problem with no solution I can see.

Kirk, That was an excellent, fascinating book. And at least he didn't have to worry bout dermestids getting into his netsukes! (Although I imagine humidity and possible cracking would be worries.)

Keeping on collecting seems a perfectly rational thing to do, at least to this 76-year-old collector. My descendants can probably deal with the disposition problem as well as I might. After all, the netsukes were in part an inheritance. And I still treasure those New Zealanders you traded to me a number of years ago!

Cheers,
John Hyatt
Kingsport, TN

[Chuck]

Kirk, great to hear from you again. What have you been up to?

FYI, I see Hare with Amber Eyes is available for Kindle for $2.99 I may read that.

Keeping on collecting seems a perfectly rational thing to do

Do you mean compiling a collection, or field collecting, or collecting for research?

Collecting for the sake of having something that others do not is well studied. I don't really understand it, as everything, of every field of collecting I do, revolves around study and research. Art collections at least serve to decorate. I can see collecting refrigerator magnets, as these bring back memories of family trips, but I don't feel any compatibility with those who collect Holly Hobby statues, thimbles, or exotic bred butterflies.

I've had no choice over the decades to dispose of tens of thousands of specimens simply because I have insufficient space. That said, there have been times when I wanted to refer to (look at) a specimen or series, only to realize I no longer had them. In one case I had to beg back a specimen. And thus begs the question what to dispose of and what to retain when we must downsize, because I already know that I'll shortly need something from what I've disposed of.

Field work, of course, has further benefits of the joy of being outdoors and exercise. I far prefer being outdoors to sitting at a desk comparing specimens. I don't care to hike for the sake of hiking, but field work forces me to hike, which is good for me both mentally and physically. That's part of the driver for our move south, so I can spend a longer season in the field.

[jhyatt]

Chuck,

I guess I mean all of the above, if one (or more) of those activities gives one some satisfaction or pleasure. There's no accounting for taste, as the saying goes. Personally, I'm not interested in amassing a lot of bred exotics (or reared hybrids, which interest me even less). Always seemed like collecting farm animals to me, not studying nature. But field work and assembling the suite of specimens that occur in some previously unstudied locale give me a lot of satisfaction, so I keep doing it.

That having been said, I have also given away probably a few thousand specimens, both to individuals and museums. Some were things I doubted I could ever determine (micros, or a bunch of neotropical small brown moths), or that I no longer wanted to use or make space for. And yes, there are a few I wish I had retained!

Have a happy 2025,
jh

[mothman55]

Field work, of course, has further benefits of the joy of being outdoors and exercise. I far prefer being outdoors to sitting at a desk comparing specimens. I don't care to hike for the sake of hiking, but field work forces me to hike, which is good for me both mentally and physically. That's part of the driver for our move south, so I can spend a longer season in the field.

I both agree and disagree Chuck. I am rarely happier than when out in the field swinging a net, and I consider this time far from "field work", but rather a joy and a pleasure. Research is not my end goal, and I do not motivate myself to find a specimen that someone else doesn't have, I just grew up with a love for butterflies and moths, and yes, many are stunningly beautiful, but I also collect unspectacular drab ones, as they also inspire me. And while I wish the summers were longer, I do find that the winters are more tolerable while I take time to spread some of the material from the summer, and this I also do not consider work, but time spent on this crazy lifelong hobby. It seems there are fewer and fewer of us left, and most of us are well past our prime, most of my friends that share this love of insects are retired, and I only know one youngster with the same interest.

[eurytides]

I can count on 2 hands the number of people in Canada who go out and collect their own butterflies and moths for nothing more than personal enjoyment. John K is in northern SK I think. Mothman55, I think you are near Toronto? So you should be close to Paul K. I am in Kingston and there isn’t really anyone else here to share this hobby with.

[Paul K]

I can count on 2 hands the number of people in Canada who go out and collect their own butterflies and moths for nothing more than personal enjoyment. John K is in northern SK I think. Mothman55, I think you are near Toronto? So you should be close to Paul K. I am in Kingston and there isn’t really anyone else here to share this hobby with.

I think you are about right.

Everyone else I encounter in the field are people with cameras and I must hide my net to avoid unpleasant looks and/or comments.

[Chuck]

I'm on the TLS email list, and read LepSoc News, both of which have Canadian lep enthusiasts publishing and sharing. Many are in the educational fields, though not entomology per se, but are passionate about field work.

There is no denial that interest in natural history, and particularly Lep collecting/ breeding has plummeted. We've discussed this repeatedly in the past. All the more reason that our hard-earned collections go to the right place so future researchers have a snapshot of our times and places.

I've run into another collector by chance once, in Madiera Canyon AZ. A guy from CA who I knew. Now, MC is a popular place, so it's no surprise another collector was there. Of course, I have gone places (e.g., Pina Blanca AZ) where I knew there would be other collectors, but this isn't really "run into."

If you look at, for example, the Finger Lakes region of NY there's a lot of land, and a lot of dirt roads, so even if there were 500 field collectors in the area the chance of a random encounter is fairly low. Narrow the probability by throwing in personal interests of specific taxa and you could have two collectors in the field every day, 0.5km apart and they'd never encounter each other.

All the more reason to do what we do now, whether it's field collecting, breeding, etc. Lepidoptery is leaning on collections made decades or a century ago, studying specimens that had been lumped into one taxon, or no longer exist over their former range. Our collections, perhaps being the last, may be the final proof of what exists here and now.

[kevinkk]

f you look at, for example, the Finger Lakes region of NY there's a lot of land, and a lot of dirt roads, so even if there were 500 field collectors in the area the chance of a random encounter is fairly low. Narrow the probability by throwing in personal interests of specific taxa and you could have two collectors in the field every day, 0.5km apart and they'd never encounter each other.

Sometimes not having competition is a good thing, I think about mushroom hunters, the issues I've experienced with agate hunting, perhaps a
fellow insect hunter would be more friendly.
I have come across a couple persons who asked about the UV light, and related their experiences, and a good samaritan who offered "help"
with the vehicle when we were stopped trying to chase down a butterfly.

[Trehopr1]

Entomology has always been a "loner" hobby if the passion is pursued into adulthood. We are after all "small game hunters" of a kind that few people understand or can relate to.

Prior to forums like this one on the internet the only opportunity one might have of finding like-minded enthusiasts may be the once a year lep-soc. meeting. Of course if you lived in Europe or Britain your chances would be better at meeting people because of the many assorted insect fairs held there along with some of their long-standing societies/groups.

I've always found field collecting to be at its best by oneself because when it is a time shared with others it usually becomes competitive.

[mothman55]

In some cities there are local associations, I am a member of the Toronto Entomologists Association, joined in my relative youth back in the mid 1980's. Left for a couple of decades while raising a family, and rejoined about 15 years ago. It was never the same. Back in the 80's I met fellow collectors and went on collecting trips with them, when I rejoined, although the membership in the association has increased from maybe 25 members to well over 100 today, I have made only one connection with a fellow collector. Many of the original members are gone now (died), and the new group is all about photography and gardening and butterfly counts. I too take lots of lep photos and plant food plants for rearing, but either the newer members don't collect, or are afraid to say they collect as they may be criticized. It's just not the same. Fortunately I still have a few contacts from the early days that I keep in regular touch with and will do the odd field trip with.

[Chuck]

I've met up with InsectNet members when in their area, so their are collectors out there. I don't track LepSoc membership, but two decades ago there was a loud member who was tracking the drop in membership and wanted to turn it around. I suspect he failed. Still, you can always reach out to LepSoc members in any given area.

There's not a lot of members in NY, which is no surprise since NY people are passionate about nothing...really odd. NY leads the way in dumbing down of America. But look at KY Lepidopterists- a fairly small state, yet has an annual meeting and an active membership. I did notice that Southern Lepidopterists' website hasn't been updated since 2016....maybe Dr. Hyatt can shed some light on why- is it a loss of general activity?

Thinking back 100 years, natural science jobs entailed many explorers doing field work to collect specimens. Now, most who have a job in Entomology are focused on economic issues- parasites and crops. On professional told me recently that his goal for 2025 is to get out and do more field collecting...good luck, I say.

Here's an indicator of the problem:



Do you see ANY gas or charcoal grills? This highrise in Toronto has hundreds or thousands of residents who do not own a Weber or Charbroil. To me, a grill is life. I would never live anywhere that I can't grill outdoors. But this is indicative of a mindset- the urban residents have no interest in the Great Outdoors. Maybe there are a few- but that's a tiny minority. Nor do they have space for a moderately-sized collection of insects or aquariums to breed fish, or anything of the sort.

When children grow up in this type of environment they are not exposed to the outdoors or natural sciences, so have no interest as adults. And, unlike Rothchild and Carnegie, when these urban adults have cash to donate, it doesn't go into natural sciences...no money for museums or collections or field research.

And as a result, the institutions that had for centuries embraced absorption of collections aren't funded, aren't focused on natural science specimens and research of the outdoors, and are generally disinterested- not like 100 years ago. Like reaching the moon, mankind's interest in natural science has peaked and petered out.

[jhyatt]

Chuck,

Not sure what you mean about the SLS website. I just looked at it and the 1st page is an announcement for the April 25-7, 2025 annual joint SLS/ATL meeting, and a call for papers. (The fall '24 meeting was moved to '25 due to hurricane threat.) I haven't kept up well with SLS membetship, but I think it is holding at about the same level as in the past few years. Like the KY Leps, I don't think it's growing, and the longterm trend is probably a slow decline... but that's speculation, not looking at data in front of me. It's several years since I was an officer, and I haven't kept up with details.

jh

[Chuck]

Chuck,

Not sure what you mean about the SLS website. I just looked at it and the 1st page is an announcement for the April 25-7, 2025

jh

Thanks John. I wasn't very familiar with the organization so went to the website last week.

Actually, the 1st page says the next meeting has been rescheduled to April 25-27 2015 LOL

The "About us" page hasn't been updated since 2019, and the most recent publication is 2016.

That above is why I was wondering about the activity and health of the organization.

[jhyatt]

Chuck,

Maybe nothing about us has changed since 2019?? And I guess they're going to trot out their time machine for the April meeting!

My guess is that whomever is in charge of the website just isn't doing anything, or maybe quit the job and no volunteer came forward to replace him or her. Anyway, the group, so far as I am aware, is still in good shape. Their main activity is the annual meeting, with 1-2 days of papers presented, and occasional field meetings. The group has always had a membership pretty heavily skewed by a preponderance of FL members. The newsletter is excellent, easily twice the size of mos issues of the Lep Soc newsletter. It's publish quarterly, and I don't recall it ever missing an issue. The current issue even has a photo on the front of a moth I took in VA.

jh

[Chuck]

Thanks John for the intel. I will look them up when we get to FL! I do hope to connect with others in FL, since it is relatively foreign to me- not Northeast, not Rockies, not jungle; lots of what looks like sandy useless scrub.

[bandrow]

Hi Chuck,

I don't know about the moths, but that "sandy useless scrub" harbors some of the neatest species of beetles in that state!! (I know you're being facetious, as am I! )

Ciao,
Bandrow