Outsized/Oversized specimens + species

[Trehopr1]

In the insect world "out-sized", extra large, or otherwise
oversize examples exist. Naturally, we collectors are keen
to finding such unusual examples whether we collect it
ourselves, purchase it, or bid on it in earnest at auction.

I suppose its just part of human nature to strive for bigger
and better especially if you have an affinity for collecting
something.

Thought this could make for an interesting thread.

So, if any hobbist of insects out there has ANY "unusual-sized"
insect in their collection to show us for ooh's and aah's sake
then feel free to post it here on this thread (along with any
pertinent background info. on how you came across it).

My initial entry to this topic revolves around a couple of
common Colias species (here in the eastern US).

Pictured below are 2 sets of (male) Colias eurytheme
and Colias philodice. Both males at the top are typical
sized examples for their respective species. The considerably
larger males at the bottom are something one only runs
across (here and there) in the field.

In fact, if I had to compare "apples to oranges" here I would
have to say from experiance that super-size males of C. philodice
are MUCH less often encountered between the two.

Both oversized specimens were collected by me in the same field
recently on Sept.03. 2024

[Trehopr1]

I should have mentioned that if anyone does have a specimen photograph to share with us it would be very helpful to many if a "typical" size example of the species were shown along with your oversize specimen.

Measurements are also helpful if you have no "typical" examples to show us.

[58chevy]

Here's an unusually large Nymphalis antiopa, with swallowtails for size comparison:

[Johnnyboy]

That really is a big specimen of a beautiful butterfly. Mourning Cloaks, or Camberwell Beauties as their known in the UK, are only scarce migrants here in England. A few years ago, a friend of mine caught one in the east of England that had landed on the road surface. He simply picked it up. He was so excited that he phoned me while I was at work to tell me about his exciting find.

Regards

Johnny

[jhyatt]

Anyone have a guess as to why undersized specimens seem to turn up more commonly than oversized ones? I'm pretty sure this is the case generally. I assume that oversize ones managed to get in one extra larval instar, and the dwarves maybe missed one, or pushed it early due to cold weather coming. The small ones, especially in the Pierids and Papilionids, seem to be a springtime occurrence, and most of the oversized ones I've taken have been in the late summer and fall.

[Cabintom]

I always assumed underfed larva = smaller adult.

[Chuck]

I always assumed underfed larva = smaller adult.

That is my experience raising Saturnids. Those exposed to crowding and competition for food results in surprisingly small adults.

Also- John had mentioned spring individuals tend to be smaller. We know that pupae lose weight during dipause, and the loss accumulates over time, which can only result in a smaller adult.

[kevinkk]

. We know that pupae lose weight during dipause, and the loss accumulates over time, which can only result in a smaller adult.

I had always wondered if pupa lost weight as time passed. It seems logical as the animal changes internally, but I have never made the effort to
compare weights of newly formed cocoons or pupa to ones after diapausing or after being set out to hatch.

Other factors can cause dwarves, I had a Brahmaea wallichi larva form a dwarf pupa after missing consuming it's shed skin, something I noticed
with 1 or 2 other larva. Unfortunately, the moth expired before hatching. The other larva simply wouldn't grow and I dispatched them.

Another factor might be food plant, not sub-par material, but living plants. I have suspected that the Hyalophora euryalus I raise from
wild adults and used cherry to grow the larva was producing larger adults than the ones I was capturing, and this season I split the brood between
cherry and ceanothus, the cherry part spun cocoons that are clearly larger, I have yet to weigh and store them.
Now that it's come up, I'll take the time to check all my adult euryalus specimens and compare the wild ones with the ones I raised at
home on cherry. Now, there is no way to know what an adult capture fed on, but I think some conclusions could be drawn.

[jhyatt]

Underfeeding or sub-optimum food plant utilization may well account for the little ones. But I don't see how the reverse, overfeeding, would account for the giants - a larva can only get so big before it has to moult. Hence my thought about a possible extra instar.

I have an old (1930's) Riker mount with 6 Colias eurytheme from Alberta, and they are every one about half normal size. The original collector wrote on the back of the mount, after the data,"The year of drought".

jh

[Luehdorf]

Bigger size could also just be genetic variation. Assuming optimum feeding levels, optimum time, sun, water, plant utilization, resting time, I am sure most of the specimens would still be normal size and then a few bigger than the others, where something in the genes is different. Would it be possible to line breed butterflies for size?
It is possible with mammals, and birds, must be possible with butterflies for sure? Has anyone ever done something like that?

I know that in England the old collectors were really keen on breeding aberrations. I had the great luck to visit Clive Pratt once in his house in the New Forest, and he had dozens of boxes with line bred aberrations of British moths from the 19th century.
It must be possible breeding for size as well?

[kevinkk]

But I don't see how the reverse, overfeeding, would account for the giants - a larva can only get so big before it has to moult. Hence my thought about a possible extra instar.

Yes, while dwarf specimens can be created by environmental conditions, I don't see any way to create a giant, except through genetics.

[boghaunter1]

A selection of small, "normal" & outsized Sask., Canada Butterflies,

Small C. philodice

Small Common Sulfurs reduced 1.jpg (470.26 KiB) Viewed 8537 times

Small & Large female Orange Sulphurs (C. eurytheme)

Small & Large Female Orange Sulfurs reduced 1.jpg (436.8 KiB) Viewed 8537 times

Size Variation in C. eurytheme

Orange Sulphur drawer reduced 1.jpg (304.28 KiB) Viewed 8537 times

John K.

[boghaunter1]

Additional Specimens,

3 small & 1 normal P. canadensis

3 small & 1 Normal C. T. S-tail reduced 1.jpg (361.56 KiB) Viewed 8535 times

Interesting wild caught Aberrants of the Mourning Cloak

4 Mourning Cloak Abs. reduced 1.jpg (408.69 KiB) Viewed 8535 times

[boghaunter1]

Whoa.... forgot these....

Small P. canadensis & large Mourning Cloak

Dwarf C. T. S-tail & Big M.C. reduced 1.jpg (413.34 KiB) Viewed 8529 times

Normal P. canadensis & another large Mourning Cloak

Normal C. T. S.-tail & Big M.C. 1.jpg (318.54 KiB) Viewed 8529 times

Just plain weird - a female, lopsided Common Wood Nymph, Cercyonis pegala ino (Not a Gynandromorph)

Common Wood Nymph Lopsided reduced 1.jpg (237.29 KiB) Viewed 8526 times

John K.

[Paul K]

Catopsilia pomona pomona f.yugurtha-female

The bottom specimen is the normal size ( wing span 8cm) I collected on Koh Tao Thailand, the top is the dwarf collected in Chiang Mai, Thailand.
The species is very common.
At first I was sure it’s a very rear in Northern Thailand Colias fieldii fieldii when it was resting on the leaf but to my disappointment that was a little C.pomona.
It is nevertheless interesting specimen of very small size that I never saw again.

IMG_1376.jpeg (133 KiB) Viewed 8491 times

[Chuck]

the large antiopa are interesting, as they are quite common here, but all are almost identical in size- I've never seen a "large" specimen.

[martellat0]

Paul,

I believe you will find this interesting -

Pictured are thirty-eight individual specimens of Catopsilia pomona pomona. These were netted across four days in June last year, during their southerly migration in Cebu island. My home happened to be near their path, and so I gladly took the opportunity to capitalize on an opportunity that rarely ever presents itself, let alone to eager collectors such as myself. I believe this series represents five out the of six forms of C. p. pomona that occurs within the Philippines, with the exception of f. catilla, which is largely distinguishable from f. pomona by the underside anyway.

As you can see, there is much variability to be had with regards to their size. The ones on the smaller end of the spectrum are under 4 cm wingspan, while the large ones average about 6 cm. Given that this species - along with other Pierids - is known to be gregarious within the larval stage, I believe the specimens within this box lend some (anecdotal) credibility to the hypothesis that smaller sized individuals are the result of food scarcity during larval development, given that they compete with one another for resources and space. Furthermore, this migration (or at least, the mass eclosion) usually occurs during the hottest months of the summer, wherein a lack of food plants could ostensibly be attributed to the extreme heat. Additionally, I myself have only observed this extreme size variability during this event - specimens of C. pomona netted during other months of the year (i.e. when numbers are "normal") do not get smaller than 5.5 cm across (mounted) and are all largely the same size.

I'd be willing to take closer photographs of individual specimens if anyone is interested.

[martellat0]

On the other side of the coin, here's a recent catch - a male Hypolimnas bolina philippensis. It's a monster of a specimen, dwarfing even my largest female. It's pictured below alongside what I would call "typically sized" specimens of a male and female of that species, which were caught in the same spot, about a week apart.


And here are some photos showcasing the blue iridescence of its hindwings.



A common species, but a quite spectacular individual (and in pristine condition too!).

[martellat0]

As for other small specimens, for your consideration are these Danaines:


A male Danaus melanippus edmondii.


A female (left) and male (right) Euploea tulliolus pollita, caught on the same day in the same place.