InsectNet forum

alandmor · by alandmor » Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:24 pm

joachim wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:20 am My Japanese is a bit rusty. The specimens are fantastic, I like the following best
http://db.museum.kyushu-u.ac.jp/entomol ... l=9&it=394
But Adam is right, without names it's not good for identification. Since my Japanese is so bad, I can't see if there's a listing of the names anywhere on the page, or at least a listing.
But a great picture book it certainly is.

At the top of the translated version, there's a <Specimen List> tab which gives you a list of taxa and corresponding drawer. but a lot are only listed to genus. Not terribly useful.

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:15 am

Unfortunately it seems not, at least not from the webpage.

Adam.

teinopalpus · by teinopalpus » Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:48 am

I attached quick photo of how are/were pupae placed. They are partially on one side for better stabilization. Using such position for many years, until now without problem. All pupae are placed same way.
Part that fails to develop is one closer to bottom of box - always, but have also one pupa which is all pharate on wings and abdomen part, but unchanging part is head, anttenaes and legs part.
This batch of pupae is totally strange. I got them in autumn. Everything was OK until May. I even noticed for 4 pupae raising of weight in May ( which I think is not possible if some kind of parasite do not lay eggs inside recently )
Have another batch of pupae of this species from other ( european ) locality which were kept in same conditions and all are hatching OK.

Will open one pupa during weekend to see if imago was well developed.

Jan

joachim · by joachim » Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:00 pm

Hello yes i was joking.
Ist there a possibility to See the Data?

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:28 pm

A friend here, who sometimes I help rear Saturniidae for, told me to strip the leaves from the cocoons once the larva inside has pupated. Apparently it helps prevent death from fungal infection. Also I rear them in chiffon sleeves, and they often form cocoons on the cloth.

Adam.

Trehopr1 · by Trehopr1 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:58 pm

In looking at your photograph Kevin I right away noticed that there were no leaves incorporated into the making of the cocoons. It is commonplace to see "breeder" type material devoid of any such materials as leaves, small twigs, etc.

In nature, incorporated (building materials) are nearly always present in saturniid cocoons found in nature. At times, they're really quite well done and can easily be mistaken as a mass of furled leaves. Some species which are known to pupate near the ground (such as the Luna moth and Io species) are very nearly impossible to see or find in nature due to the leaf litter debris they incorporate.

I remember O'le Leroy remarking that in all his years of "wild cocoon hunting" in his backwoods and ramparts; that he never found a luna moth cocoon !

I love finding wild cocoons although, it has been a few years since I have found one.

I think a curious thread might be one showing pictures of natural "disguised" cocoons found in nature.

I'm going to work on that thought !

Thank you for your honesty Kevin. By the looks of your purchased stock you were lucky to get a very healthy stock of that moth. Someone did a very good job raising them through.

kevinkk · by kevinkk » Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:55 pm

I have to confess to buying these as cocoons. I do like the Rothschildia genus, very nice moths, and the larvas are varied in appearance.
Hopefully I'll be able to breed these.

Trehopr1 · by Trehopr1 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:33 pm

Always beautiful... Wonderful genus.
Well done in raising that healthy batch.

jhyatt · by jhyatt » Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:28 pm

Chuck wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 2:24 pm
jhyatt wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 2:02 pm I place a determination label in each tray, but not on individual specimens -- specimen pins hold only collecting data.

Cheers,
jh
Doesn't that mean a unit pinning tray for one singular specimen of a species? Or ssp? I wish I had that amount of space!

Not at all, Chuck. One determination label (with name of taxon only) is in each unit tray, with as many examples of that taxon as I have placed in said tray. Each specimen pin holds a locality data label, just not a label with the name of the bug -- that's at the head of the series at the top of the unit tray.

I guess it could mean one unit tray per specimen for taxons where I hold only singletons, but there aren't many of those in my collection. I use trays sized to fit however many specimens I have.

jh

Jshuey · by Jshuey » Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:21 pm

Just keep in mind, that "legal" sales out of Peru require export permits before the specimens are shipped. And these permits often take over a month for the dealer to acquire.

So, be patient...

john

wollastoni · by wollastoni » Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:34 pm

teinopalpus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:37 am Thank you both for reactions.

Larvae were wild collected. Now I think Adam can be right with some form of desiccation. I have several pupae affected exactly same way and what is strange - it is same side of pupaes. As I am laying all pupae on one side to have clear look on one side of wing part to check development - it can have impact. I was not thinking about desiccation because never heard about possibility to desiccate only part of pupa while butterfly inside is normally developing.

Jan

It must be the issue indeed, as they don't stay on one side in nature.

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:24 am

teinopalpus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:37 am I have several pupae affected exactly same way and what is strange - it is same side of pupaes. As I am laying all pupae on one side ...

Does the side of the pupa that fails to develop always correspond to the side that was either up or down, or were the pupae not all placed on the same side?

Maybe you should place the pupae either face up or face down, which would be more natural. In nature they would never be on one side.

Adam.

teinopalpus · by teinopalpus » Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:37 am

Thank you both for reactions.

Larvae were wild collected. Now I think Adam can be right with some form of desiccation. I have several pupae affected exactly same way and what is strange - it is same side of pupaes. As I am laying all pupae on one side

to have clear look on one side of wing part to check development - it can have impact. I was not thinking about desiccation because never heard about possibility to desiccate only part of pupa while butterfly inside is normally developing.

Jan

Annarobertson1947 · by Annarobertson1947 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:04 am

Thanks, its Ebay listing

wollastoni · by wollastoni » Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:54 am

If you buy through his ebay listing, there will be no issue : https://www.ebay.com/usr/loretosales
I made several orders each year on his listings.
They have full export permits. (that's why it takes them few weeks to send the parcel because they need to wait for the permit for each order).

If in direct, I will let other member answer, but I guess that if he is honest on eBay, he should be honest also in direct (even if that rules is not always true with Peruvian sellers).

Annarobertson1947 · by Annarobertson1947 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:29 am

Im a about to buy from Loreto sales Peru, am in Australia, is this axwise idea, am wary
Anna

kevinkk · by kevinkk » Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:51 pm

Todays offering, a newly hatched female Rothschildia arethusa, resting on the Newton's cradle of cocoons

: DSCN2113.JPG (699.29 KiB) Viewed 109 times

[a

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:00 pm

I have very rarely seen this before. The half of the pupa that does not develop remains hard, and unfortunately the pupa cannot hatch. I have no idea what can cause this or how to prevent it. If it is happening to several pupae from the same batch it way be due to desiccation on one side during diapause, or a strange hormonal imbalance.

Adam.

wollastoni · by wollastoni » Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:12 am

Interesting, let's hope the butterfly will emerge !
Could be a bi-form result with one aberrant half... or it could be a totally normal imago.

Are these specimen bred from wild caterpillars, or from 2nd, 3rd generations of breeding ?

teinopalpus · by teinopalpus » Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:15 am

Hi,

Although I already reared many hundreds Papilios, now I found strange pupae development I never saw until now. I would like to ask another experienced breeders what can cause this anomaly.
What is found is when pupa starting to pharate , one side of pupae is visible to develop, but oposite one did not change at all. It affects only "wings and head" part of pupa. Abdomen part is visible. I have several pupae with same appearance.

Additional info :

1. Larvae were collected in nature - parasiting is possible. But I saw many parasited pupae and "it was" different.
2. Pupae had normal hibernation, no unnatural changes in weight or colour.
3. Pupae are living ( they are moving ) until maximum transparent, but did not hatch at time and I think they are already dead.

friendly, Jan

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