InsectNet forum

Annarobertson1947 · by Annarobertson1947 » Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:57 pm

I'm going to ask why if ssp of Claudina and others are recognised as meeting at periphery of distribution ranges and hybrise, that to me is a contradiction of ssp versus cline designation.
A ssp as far as I'm aware in relation to other butterflies is a distinct geographical separation of races.
If the mixture of ssp occurs at edges of their ranges then they are not seperated geographically.
Hence how can they be sspas against a cline?

rhomadium · by rhomadium » Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:33 pm

Thanks, I look forward to sharing some photos and asking questions here

Also chime in where and when I can.

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:27 pm

Chuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2025 2:40 pm For the price of bird seed I'd toss the bag and buy new. If your home is warm and humid I wouldn't want them migrating to plants, clothing, books, etc.

If you put the bag in the freezer for a week, take it out for 10 days and then freeze it again that will kill the Psocids and also any immatures that hatch from eggs which survive the first freeze. Then you can use the contents to feed the local birds.

Psocids mainly feed on microscopic fungal mycelia which grow on organic material in humid situations. It is possible they were already in the bag when you bought it, but it is also quite likely that they were already in your house at least in small numbers.

Adam.

PS. Please do send photos of other insects you find, Chuck was definitely being complimentary about the photo and information you provided. I am sure we all wish that everyone who wants an insect identified would post photos like this.

Chuck · by Chuck » Thu Jan 16, 2025 6:17 pm

I think many people still don't realize that annual Leps which dipause one winter can actually go through two or more. I can't recall reading any paper specifically on the topic, just bits and pieces here and there, typically in papers dedicated to specific taxa/ taxon. So I think there's no list of presumably annual Leps that have been observed to dipause two or more winters. Heck, maybe it all of them, at least where there's winter.

I wonder how many live pupae have been tossed in the trash come August.

kevinkk · by kevinkk » Thu Jan 16, 2025 5:57 pm

I was aware of the extended lifecycle for Parnassius, we have 2 species here, one even flies around my house at the coast, P. clodius.

There may be very basic questions, but no stupid ones, even if it's something I thought everyone knew, like what causes the tides

hopefully my
bewildered look didn't betray the initial thought.

Chuck · by Chuck » Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:20 pm

No apologies needed- you provided a photo, and a good one- a real rarity here! Most of the time we get fuzzy photos with black dots and they want to know what it is.

With that microscope you can take great photos of all sorts of things- butterfly wing scales, heads & "faces", etc. Share here whatever you do photo.

rhomadium · by rhomadium » Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:04 pm

Hey Chuck Thanks for the reply.

Apologies I should of read the forum rules a little better, but yes I placed my iphone 13 max up to my cheapish Amscope microsope eyepiece that I use to do electronic board level repairs lol, and managed to get it to focus and took a few quick snaps.

I just managed to come across this after a while of searching and the picture matched exactly with the wings etc ! (lepinotus patruelis)

so I think I now have my answer

Thanks Again Chuck

Look forward to finding new creatures unknown to me.

Chuck · by Chuck » Thu Jan 16, 2025 2:40 pm

Well you win the Photo We Can Actually See award. What did you use, it wasn't an iPhone. And- you told us both the location and the situation! You can stick around.

They are book lice, or similar. They feed on grain and all manner of things (like dead insects and books), generally in humid environments. They won't hurt you but can be a nuisance.

For the price of bird seed I'd toss the bag and buy new. If your home is warm and humid I wouldn't want them migrating to plants, clothing, books, etc.

For more info, do an internet search on "book lice grain"

wollastoni · by wollastoni » Thu Jan 16, 2025 2:18 pm

Indeed, never replace an old label.

rhomadium · by rhomadium » Thu Jan 16, 2025 2:05 pm

Hello everyone over here @ Insectnet Forum

Could someone please identify what insect these are please ?
there are quite a few of them breeding in my sealed bag of wheat grains

I'm from the UK and bought the bag of seed as bird feed around a year and a half ago. I cannot for the life of me identify them after searching images all over the net. They are tiny, I'd guess around 1mm - 1.5mm.

Any help would be greatfull

Thanks Chrissy

Chuck · by Chuck » Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:41 pm

If you translate a label, you should add that to the original label- never replace an original label.

wollastoni · by wollastoni » Thu Jan 16, 2025 10:38 am

Thank you Mokky, it can also help Japanese / Chinese collectors with labels in a language they don't know (Russian, French, Czech...).

mokky · by mokky » Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:08 am

I respect the development of this wonderful app. It will eliminate the frustration you had been feeling for a long time with so many collecting labels only written in Japanese.

I would like to ask my friends and colleagues to make sure that the English translation is also included in their labels from now on.

Of course, as is already mentioned above by another Japanese member, this app is not perfect, so it is a good idea to check with a native speaker just to be sure.

mokky

Chuck · by Chuck » Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:53 pm

Thank you!! Found what I needed.

wollastoni · by wollastoni » Wed Jan 15, 2025 4:57 pm

Done, it is back. Thanks Chuck

wollastoni · by wollastoni » Wed Jan 15, 2025 4:46 pm

Thanks for the notice, I think I know what the problem could be. Let me work on that.

Chuck · by Chuck » Wed Jan 15, 2025 2:09 pm

In November I noted that the archived forum was unsearcheable.

Now the archive forum appears to be "gone". The link in Board Index to the "Old Forum" shows a file "cgi-bin" but clicking that returns "Error 403 Forbidden."

I really would like to get on the archive, there's information I need.

bobw · by bobw » Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:59 pm

Many arctic or high mountain butterflies go through more than one year to complete their life cycle. In Central Asia, some Parnassius have a 2-year cycle, so are only found in numbers in even (or odd) years, with only the occasional specimen in other years.

A friend of mine once reared Euphydryas intermedia from the high Alps, which is considered to have a 2-year cycle. He actually got a couple of adults out the first year, several more the second year, then one or two each year over the next 5 years!

Some lowland species will also occasionally go through more than one year in response to adverse conditions such as drought.

Chuck · by Chuck » Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:56 pm

kevinkk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:10 pm That is news to me, in fact, I had no idea any butterfly would overwinter more than once.

Perhaps it's habitat, I think indra is found in the drier parts of Oregon, and presumably likewise in other locales.

Hardly a day goes by I don't learn something new, that says something... I need to get out more possibly.

Eurytides has has a MidSummer Tiger dipause over two winters, and that's in the eastern North America. I've had polyphemus and promethea overwinter two years, with polyphemus being more common, maybe close to 2%.

"get out" is one means of observation; breeding/ raising is another. In our studies of the MidSummer Tiger both efforts have contributed to understanding of the taxon. In fact, with the MidSummer Tiger, eurytides' documentation of the larval morphology, food plants, and growth has provided a critical facet of the taxon that's often missing when descriptions & notes are based solely on the adults; without it, the description would be far less comprehensive.

Also, I've discovered often that when I have some new idea or question it's already been documented in a publications- someone else already thought of it, somebody else already did the work. Also, many publications are so chock full of little "hints" and observations that it's easy to overlook them; in some cases I didn't catch little things like double dipause until the fifth, or tenth, re-read of a publication.

The easiest way to find out more is do what you did- post it here, and let others provide insights. It's helpful too if enthusiasts post field notes or breeding notes, because they can then be searched here; keeping lessons learned a secret, or simply not bothering to share, is a loss to everyone.

kevinkk · by kevinkk » Tue Jan 14, 2025 6:10 pm

That is news to me, in fact, I had no idea any butterfly would overwinter more than once.

Perhaps it's habitat, I think indra is found in the drier parts of Oregon, and presumably likewise in other locales.

Hardly a day goes by I don't learn something new, that says something... I need to get out more possibly.

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