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Picture one. Morpho rhetenor rhetenor. Two males. French Guyana.
Picture two. Two male Morpho rhetenor cacica. Peru. Bottom specimen is form paradisiaca
Picture three. Top male Morpho rhetenor eusebes.Brazil. Bottom specimen male Morpho rhetenor helena.Peru
I sadly & very foolishly never invested in any female M rhetenor.

Dave, in your 3rd photo, I'm not sure where you got the name diana from, it's ssp. helena. Also, eusebes is now generally considered to be a synonym of r. rhetenor.

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:28 pm Dave, in your 3rd photo, I'm not sure where you got the name diana from, it's ssp. helena. Also, eusebes is now generally considered to be a synonym of r. rhetenor.

Sorry Bob. My error. Have amended now. Thank You.
Thanks also for the info on eusebes.

daveuk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:03 pm

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:28 pm Dave, in your 3rd photo, I'm not sure where you got the name diana from, it's ssp. helena. Also, eusebes is now generally considered to be a synonym of r. rhetenor.

Sorry Bob. My error. Have amended now. Thank You.
Thanks also for the info on eusebes.

It's ssp. helena, helenor is an entirely separate species.

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:07 pm It's ssp. helena, helenor is an entirely separate species.

Thanks yet again Bob. Have amended again. Hope I got it correct this time !!

Indeed, this remains THE perennial (standard) by which all other Morpho species are measured !

The nominate M. rhetenor rhetenor has very few rivals that are of such spectacular brilliance (amongst South American butterflies). While subspecies helena and species M. cypris do tend to take things to "another level" in awesomeness; rhetenor is consummate in being attractive.

In fact Henry Walter Bates who collected insects for 10 years in the Amazon basin remarked in his memoirs that he could see rhetenor (males) flying about the canopy of the rainforest from a quarter-mile away.

Males have (I think) just about the most pleasingly attractive falcate wing shape of any butterfly. The subspecies augustinae which is only found in a transitional zone between Venezuela and Brazil remains another "standout" amongst the subspecies of rhetenor and consistently commands the highest prices for specimens aside from (females) of M. absoloni.

A true marvel of a species from South America.

Nice lighting and color with those photos Dave. It can be difficult to get good images of such reflective species.

Here are my 2 male specimens. Also, have an
equally splendid (female) but, need to still take
a photo.

Top: M. rhetenor rhetenor

Bottom: M. rhetenor cacica

Trehopr1 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:19 pm Here are my 2 male specimens. Also, have an
equally splendid (female) but, need to still take
a photo.

Top: M. rhetenor rhetenor

Bottom: M. rhetenor cacica

Great photos of two really lovely specimens Trehopr. They look to be a more turquoise shade of blue than my specimens.
Look forward to seeing your female when you have chance to photograph it.

daveuk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:30 pm

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:07 pm It's ssp. helena, helenor is an entirely separate species.

Thanks yet again Bob. Have amended again. Hope I got it correct this time !!

Sorry Dave, I can't have made myself clear. The specimen you picture is M. rhetenor helena. M. helenor is a banded species, similar to M. achilles.

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:36 pm

daveuk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:30 pm

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:07 pm It's ssp. helena, helenor is an entirely separate species.

Sorry Dave, I can't have made myself clear. The specimen you picture is M. rhetenor helena. M. helenor is a banded species, similar to M. achilles.

No Bob. It was me. In a rush. Familiar with both those names so it was entirely my fault for the confusion.Have now amended original post hopefully correctly this time. Thanks for your patience Bob. I could try that of a Saint

daveuk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:09 am

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:36 pm

daveuk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:30 pm

Sorry Dave, I can't have made myself clear. The specimen you picture is M. rhetenor helena. M. helenor is a banded species, similar to M. achilles.

No Bob. It was me. In a rush. Familiar with both those names so it was entirely my fault for the confusion.Have now amended original post hopefully correctly this time. Thanks for your patience Bob. I could try that of a Saint

Now correct Dave

bobw wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:28 pm Dave, in your 3rd photo, I'm not sure where you got the name diana from, it's ssp. helena. Also, eusebes is now generally considered to be a synonym of r. rhetenor.

Is M. diana considered to be closer to rhetenor, or to cypris? -

https://archive.insectnet.com/thread/46 ... r-hightoni

Morpho cypris is an all together separate species from this. This one is a subspecies name of rhetenor although I have also seen augustinae also used as a subspecies of rhetenor as well.

Perhaps diana and augustinae are synonymous with one of them being the older name. I'm no specialist on morpho's so perhaps someone can give you a more definitive answer.

What I do know is that as mentioned these odd looking rhetenor subspecies are only to be seen in a transitional zone that occurs along the border of Venezuela and Brazil. Some have bolder white spotting than the one pictured and they are neither collected very often nor offered for sale very often either. When they do sell you better have deep pockets....

Don't know if the region these are found is hard to access or that is or a matter of timing but, you don't see them very often offered or present in private collections.

Have seen only two of these present in private collections in all my years and the minimum asking price was $1,500 and that was already many years ago.

Note, the much more falcate wingshape indicative of rhetenor as opposed to that of cypris which is much more rounded in the general shape of its wings.

Most people accept that augustinae Le Cerf, 1925 is the valid name for this subspecies of M. rhetenor, diana Le Moult, 1962 is a junior subjective synonym.

Trehopr1 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:12 am Morpho cypris is an all together separate species from this. This one is a subspecies name of rhetenor although I have also seen augustinae also used as a subspecies of rhetenor as well...

bobw wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:48 am Most people accept that augustinae Le Cerf, 1925 is the valid name for this subspecies of M. rhetenor, diana Le Moult, 1962 is a junior subjective synonym.

Thanks for clarifying; I was wondering if diana was indeed considered a ssp. of rhetenor, or a separate species altogether. Interestingly, some specimens of diana have wing patterns that bear some similarities to those of cypris, although not as pronounced.

Slightly off topic, but if the abdomens are not removed, how likely is it that greasing will happen? Is it more than 50% for example? Or is it rare, but the abdomens are invariably removed by the sellers so as to take no chances?

This is one of my first butterflies and Morhpo ever.
Catch date before 1970, no further data. I paid 8 DM ( $4 or so) from my pocket money and am still thrilled. Is it really rhetenor?

By the way, the body is original and without oil.

https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code ... UrLXaWHSvX

Greetings Joachim

P.S. I have 16 Morpho from bought pupae, they hatched 2 years ago. No oil yet. also some M. achilles without problems. But i have some green Papilio where the oil destory the color.

joachim wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:28 am P.S. I have 16 Morpho from bought pupae, they hatched 2 years ago. No oil yet. also some M. achilles without problems. But i have some green Papilio where the oil destory the color.

Since the colour is structural and not based on pigment, would degreasing not bring back the color? How does grease permanently destroy structural color?