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Three ex pupae examples from Costa Rica. One female & two male. Have not given species information. I presume they are a form of S. marthesia. It seems to me this genus is an extremely confusing one. Whatever the taxonomic implications are they are really magnificent butterflies. The reddest of the red.

They're strange specimens Dave. They seem to have characteristics of both S. galanthis (=marthesia) and S. nemesis. The forewing pattern is more like galanthis, but galanthis normally has orange females, unlike nemesis.

daveuk wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:54 am ...Whatever the taxonomic implications are they are really magnificent butterflies. The reddest of the red.

Superb specimens; definitely one of my favorite Neotropical nymphalid genera! Indeed, the taxonomy has been adjusted numerous times. To my knowledge, the genus is currently considered to have only three species (galanthis, nemesis, syntyche), although some authors treat nemesis as a ssp. of galanthis.

http://butterfliesofamerica.com/L/t/Siderone_a.htm

bobw wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:42 pm They're strange specimens Dave. They seem to have characteristics of both S. galanthis (=marthesia) and S. nemesis. The forewing pattern is more like galanthis, but galanthis normally has orange females, unlike nemesis.

Thanks Bob. I think much more work needs to be done on them.

livingplanet3 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:47 pm

daveuk wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:54 am ...Whatever the taxonomic implications are they are really magnificent butterflies. The reddest of the red.

Superb specimens; definitely one of my favorite Neotropical nymphalid genera! Indeed, the taxonomy has been adjusted numerous times. To my knowledge, the genus is currently considered to have only three species (galanthis, nemesis, syntyche), although some authors treat nemesis as a ssp. of galanthis.

http://butterfliesofamerica.com/L/t/Siderone_a.htm

Thanks livingplanet. I think a lot of South American nymphalidae are very confusing taxonomically.

Here is a treatment of the genus in French. https://www.persee.fr/doc/bsef_0037-928 ... 114_4_2703. They recognize three species, but my poor understanding of French limits me as to why they separate nemesis from galanthis.

And here is my favorite - Siderone syntyche syntyche. In flight this is a very convincing mimic of Prepona aedon rodriguezi, which is actually more common at the site where we collected these two specimens. In the bright tropical sun, that FW blue is much more apparent. (but I will say that I have some Caribbean bugs that are pretty amazing as well!)

John

Jshuey wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:18 pm Here is a treatment of the genus in French. https://www.persee.fr/doc/bsef_0037-928 ... 114_4_2703. They recognize three species, but my poor understanding of French limits me as to why they separate nemesis from galanthis.

That's the paper I was working from, along with various discussions I had with Michel Dottax. The paper only covers nemesis and syntyche, he was planning another one on galinthias but disappeared about 5 years ago and I haven't seen him since.

Jshuey wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:18 pm Here is a treatment of the genus in French. https://www.persee.fr/doc/bsef_0037-928 ... 114_4_2703. They recognize three species, but my poor understanding of French limits me as to why they separate nemesis from galanthis.

And here is my favorite - Siderone syntyche syntyche. In flight this is a very convincing mimic of Prepona aedon rodriguezi, which is actually more common at the site where we collected these two specimens. In the bright tropical sun, that FW blue is much more apparent. (but I will say that I have some Caribbean bugs that are pretty amazing as well!)

Thanks for all that information John & photos of your self caught specimens.
I believe I have that link of my P.C .courtesy of the late Danny Burk.
I agree that S syntyche is a spectacular butterfly. Sadly missing from my collection.

Picture one. Specimens from various Peruvian localities early to.mid 80s
Picture two. Four males from Tingo Maria Peru 2001. Top male is from Yungas Bolivia 2000.
Picture three. Pair from Joinville, Brazil 1987

Male & three females from El Salvador
Male is from 2015. Females from 1985.

Dave, in you first pic of the Peruvian ones, they are all galanthis, except for the 2nd one down on the right, which is S. syntyche mars. In the 2nd pic, the top 3 are also mars, the bottom 2 are galanthis. The pair from Joinville are S. nemesis catarina.

Of the El Salvador ones, the male and bottom female are definitely S. nemesis mexicana. The other two females are confusing like the ones you first posted. Maybe female galanthis from Central America are red, unlike those from South America, which are orange.

Wow, red-n-black just go so well togather as colors.

Don't matter where it appears --- it just looks GOOD !

Striking genus, of which I've only seen in books. Never
seen any in private collections that I've seen....

Dave, all my IDs have been done from the Dottax & Pierre paper, along with various conversations with Michel. This genus always fascinated me and I had a small collection of about 100 specimens representing most populations. However, when I had severe space problems I gave them all to Michel in exchange for a few nice Castniidae.

bobw wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:57 am Dave, all my IDs have been done from the Dottax & Pierre paper, along with various conversations with Michel. This genus always fascinated me and I had a small collection of about 100 specimens representing most populations. However, when I had severe space problems I gave them all to Michel in exchange for a few nice Castniidae.

I don't have anywhere near that number of Siderone Bob. That must have been quite a collection! Sad that you had to part with it. Lucky Michel !!

Trehopr1 wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:40 am Wow, red-n-black just go so well togather as colors.

Don't matter where it appears --- it just looks GOOD !

Striking genus, of which I've only seen in books. Never
seen any in private collections that I've seen....

Agree Trehopr. It's a really beautiful genus. The reds in this genus are the richest I have seen in any butterflies.

does anyone have specimens of galanthis from Guyana and/or Surinam ? i am compiling images of galanthis from countries adjacent to Trinidad for comparison. i believe Trinidad galanthis should be treated as a seperate ssp. Michel Dottax agrees.

I caught a female in French Guiana (Kaw mountain) but I guess you already have pictures from French Guiana specimens.

Very strong flyers, I was pretty proud of myself to net it !
Most specimens are caught with traps.
A friend of mine caught a male with his car. He found a perfect male crashed on his windshield wiper !

yes i have images from fr guiana thanks. the trinidad population has been treated as galanthis galanthis to date , but its clearly a seperate ssp. it has a variety of female forms in Trinidad varying from similar orange form as in guianas , to red forms, some approaching the male form. the only other ssp to have much female variation is canande in ecuador, though no orange females there.

Recently acquired female from Peru.
(Presumably S. marthasia form)

Wonderful beasts ! Thanks a lot for sharing, Dave !