Biggest Beetle

Discussions on beetles
User avatar
58chevy
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 5:58 pm
Location: Houston, TX USA
United States of America

Biggest Beetle

Post by 58chevy »

Determining which beetle species is the largest on earth depends on how you measure it. Overall weight is the standard, but a beetle's length can make it appear larger than one that is heavier. Here are some of the usual candidates for "World's Largest Beetle". The record length, as far as I know for Dynastes hercules is 181mm, but that specimen was bred on a beetle farm and was not fed its natural diet. The longest Macrodontia cervicornis I know of is 175mm, including mandibles. The longest Titanus giganteus is roughly the same length but the body is much more massive. I once read a description from the 1890s or early 1900s of an entomologist who described observing a 9-inch Titanus beetle. There is a good chance he was exaggerating but if his description was anywhere near accurate, that would be the biggest beetle ever. The heaviest beetles are in the genera Goliathus & Megasoma. I live in N.America. Our biggest beetle is considered to be Dynastes granti. An 86mm specimen was once sold on this website, but they seldom reach 80mm. Some of our southwestern desert prionid species can exceed 80mm from the tip of the mandibles to the tip of the abdomen (beyond the elytra). Here are some "biggest beetle candidate" pix:
Attachments
hercules-beetle-titan-beetle-compared-two-column.jpg.thumb.768.768.jpg
hercules-beetle-titan-beetle-compared-two-column.jpg.thumb.768.768.jpg (42.78 KiB) Viewed 11923 times
Macrodontia cervicornis-M.jpg
Macrodontia cervicornis-M.jpg (71.59 KiB) Viewed 11923 times
M actaeon on hand.jpg
M actaeon on hand.jpg (558.86 KiB) Viewed 11923 times
africaone
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 9:24 am
Belgium

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by africaone »

In Africa less candidates ... ;-)
The longest is Macrotoma hayesi (up 135 mm)
followed by Goliatus (more than 110 mm)
and some species in the Acanthophorini up 100 mm (genera Tithoes and Anthracocentrus)
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Trehopr1 »

When the discussion comes around to (largest) beetle species
there are certain "anatomical" aspects present in Dynastes hercules
and Macrodontia cervicornis which somewhat preclude them both
from (true) consideration.

Yes, both species have documented "giants" as you mention David.
Actually, M. cervicornis is represented by a 17.7 cm specimen owned
by a japanese collector.

However, in the case of D. hercules literally (half) of its measured
length may be attributed to its exaggerated horn AND in the case
of M. cervicornis it is the exaggerated mandibles (jaws) which
give that species similar credit.

Yet, most beetle enthusiasts more (fairly) recognize 2 other enormous
Prionid species as the (true) carriers of size dominance. These are
Titanus giganteus (Brazil, Surinam, Fr. Guiana) and Xixuthrus heros (Fiji).

The reason these 2 species are of more deserved credit is because both
feature short mandibles and bodies of huge mass ! Actually, from about
14.7-14.8 cm (and on up) specimens become (broader in width) AND
longer in length without the benefit of exaggerated horns/mandibles.

So far, the largest (documented) example of T. giganteus is at 16.7 cm.
from (tip of mandibles to elytra tips). There remains the possibility that
other "supersize" examples exist but, no one is advertising it....

Image

Here is another "buster" which sold on Ebay a few years ago at 161mm.
It was 163mm before it dried out ! *VERY few get beyond 15.5 cm.

Image


The other (true) contender for size is the rival "super" Prionid species
known as Xixuthrus heros (Fiji). This one remains VERY much RARER (in
nature) than T. giganteus; and, of coarse has been given full protection status
by the Fijian government.

The largest known (documented) example of X. heros is 16.5cm from (tip of
mandibles to elytra tips) and resides in a museum.

The Beast !

Image

A follow-up brief article as well !

Image

In doing this brief follow-up article I am (by no means) trying to diminish
the magnificence or grandeur of D. hercules or M, cervicornis; which both
are fully deserving of. I just wanted to clarify the subject of size comparisons.
User avatar
58chevy
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 5:58 pm
Location: Houston, TX USA
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by 58chevy »

As I pointed out in the opening post, the method of measurement determines which species is perceived as the largest. Regarding beetles, three methods are commonly used:
1. Weight (mass), which I believe is preferred by scientists
2. Total length, including horns & mandibles
3. Body size in area (square mm or cm)
Length & body size are the same methods of comparison used to determine the biggest moth: Do you prefer the longest wingspan (Thysania agrippina) or the greatest wing area (Coscinocera hercules)?
The upper photo shows Titanus & D. hercules side-by-side. I think most people would agree that Titanus looks bigger. In my opinion body size (area) trumps both length and weight when it comes to perceived size. So I personally consider Titanus to be the world's largest beetle. Many scientists, however, would likely choose Megasoma actaeon or one of the Goliathus species because they are supposed to be heavier than Titanus. However, I've never seen a published survey of large beetle weights. Maybe one of our forum members can provide a link to one.
Chuck
Premium Member - 2024
Premium Member - 2024
Reactions:
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Chuck »

Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:14 am
The other (true) contender for size is the rival "super" Prionid species
known as Xixuthrus heros (Fiji). This one remains VERY much RARER (in
nature) than T. giganteus; and, of coarse has been given full protection status
by the Fijian government.
Xixuthrus heros is not rare in nature; they commonly are found at the lights of the nursing college on the edge of Suva. Going inland, there's nothing but mountainous virgin forest, and the villagers know all about them.

That said, they are protected by Fiji government. While it's unlikely collectors could wipe out the species, given that it has so much natural forest, it is likely they'd deplete the populations near the population centers.

Besides which, collectors tend to be ignoramuses and tromp through villages, private property, and gardens like they own them- so have proven to be generally unwelcomed. One can always approach the Fijian authorities for a permit. It was arrogant US collectors- well known collectors- who royally POed Solomon Islands Dept of Natural Resources and got the big "NO EXPORT OF WILDLIFE NO EXCEPTIONS" sign put up in the office.
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Trehopr1 »

Well Chuck, X. heros remains a rarity in American collections of any kind (professional or private). I would venture to say that there are probably fewer than 10 specimens throughout the whole of the US. If it was so (common) prior to its protection then why is it not seen in museum collections here ?

The only collections which boast specimens of it (in any semblance of numbers) are those from "Old World" European countries (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, just to name the major ones). There are specimens in private hands there also which is something I very much doubt you would ever see here. Wealthy Japanese should also be mentioned here. It really is the "Holy Grail" for serious collectors of Cerambycidae.

I know you have experience in that part of the world however, there are several species of Xixuthrus described and apparently not all are SO easy to tell apart. Perhaps, there are an additional one or two species which are found at the nursing station but, they may not necessarily be X. heros.

The article that I posted at the beginning of this thread about X. heros was taken from a Fijian website. In it, it is clearly stated that it is rare and that a similar species Xixuthrus heyrovskyi (Taveuni Is.) is even less common.
I think they know what they are talking about....

I do (my best) to post excerpts from literature that I have run across when I have a statement to make about something in particular. It is nice to know that it has something of a stronghold present in its native mountain wilderness.
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Trehopr1 »

Here is an excerpt Dave taken from a book indicating
the diffrences between weight and mass amongst the
genera of Goliathus and Megasoma.

Image

I don't see the relevance of weight or mass (supposedly
used by scientists) as a gauge having "anything" to do with
size/proportion. I would happily compare a full blown 15+cm
Titan Beetle (side by side) against any Goliathus/Megasoma
AND then ask --- which one is biggest ?

I have a friend who personally collected a 15.1 cm Titan Beetle
in Fr. Guiana back in 1986 and he said it was the heaviest living
insect that he ever held in his hand. Now, maybe it would still
fall short of a Goliathus but, it had to be weighty given its size
and for my friend to even mention it in the first place.

Specimen length is another issue because most people are
"lumpers" and far fewer are "splitters". I'm a splitter, or more
importantly I don't see things in (general) terms -- to be fair.

So, this is why I made mention that although D. hercules and
M. cervicornis are regarded as being amongst the largest of
beetle species; they have unique features about them that
preclude them from serious consideration in the minds of
honest beetle enthusiasts.

Both, are still awesome species and everyone with a beetle
fancy wants one or two (at least); but, lets give (true) credit
where credit is due.

Hence, T. giganteus and X. heros are the real "titans" of the
beetle realm.
Chuck
Premium Member - 2024
Premium Member - 2024
Reactions:
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Chuck »

Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 7:09 pm Well Chuck, X. heros remains a rarity in American collections of any kind (professional or private). I would venture to say that there are probably fewer than 10 specimens throughout the whole of the US. If it was so (common) prior to its protection then why is it not seen in museum collections here ?

The only collections which boast specimens of it (in any semblance of numbers) are those from "Old World" European countries (Britain, France, Germany, Italy, just to name the major ones). There are specimens in private hands there also which is something I very much doubt you would ever see here. Wealthy Japanese should also be mentioned here. ...

I know you have experience in that part of the world however, there are several species of Xixuthrus described and apparently not all are SO easy to tell apart. Perhaps, there are an additional one or two species which are found at the nursing station but, they may not necessarily be X. heros.

The article that I posted at the beginning of this thread about X. heros was taken from a Fijian website. In it, it is clearly stated that it is rare and that a similar species Xixuthrus heyrovskyi (Taveuni Is.) is even less common.
I think they know what they are talking about....
Fiji was relatively remote until WW2. Even prior to that, PNG was safer than Fiji. It wasn't until US built airfields throughout the Pacific that most of the islands became even the slightest bit accessible. Even then, "regular" air travel didn't even start until the 1970s, by which time regulatory controls were already in place in Fiji and in 1974 by CITES. Even in the 1970s only Nadi and Suva were generally accessible on Viti Levu, and AFAIK there are no Xixuthrus on the Nadi side.

Even today, tourists (and collector-types) are not welcome in the interior. That is even more true for Guadalcanal, where one has a very real risk of getting disappeared.

So between all those factors, one only finds some specimens in US institutions. Does Carnegie not have one? LA?

I can't say how many species are in institutional collections in USA. The number of specimens in private collections in USA exceed 10; I've seen a few in one collection alone.

I was chatting with the researchers in Fiji shortly after they figured out that not all Heros were Heros. There are a number of papers on the Fijian Xixuthrus. The other species may now be rare due to the deforestation; Viti Levu though still has a huge interior with virgin forest. I've had the opportunity to speak with some of the interior tribes, and they report that it's not uncommon and they know how to find the grubs.

I tried to find the photo of X heros in my net (which was released) but can't locate it right now. It was one of several that came to a residential light.

As for the source, well most countries have a habit of hyping "rare". Fiji has "rare" endemic iguanas that I've seen a number of in the wild. Rare too is relative, particularly when a species is seasonal, as is X heros.

Of course, none of that changes the fact that it's an impressive animal.
User avatar
58chevy
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 5:58 pm
Location: Houston, TX USA
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by 58chevy »

Trehopr, thanks very much for the clipping relating to the heaviest beetles. I find it strange that you do not consider weight/mass to be relevant in reference to beetle size. I agree with you that it's not a factor in the APPEARANCE of size, but mass is a more precise statistic for most scientific applications. In your opinion, the APPEARANCE of size overrules the easily measured MASS of the beetles in question. I have the same opinion, but I wouldn't publish a paper based on something as imprecise as appearance. I think we both agree that Titanus is the winner based on its APPARENT size, but I suspect that most professional entomologists (which does not include me) will award the "Biggest Beetle" title to the most massive (Goliathus).
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Trehopr1 »

Thank you David for posting this thread. It has brought up some lively discussion and that's what makes for a captivating topic.

I like the pictures that you have posted and I will post some additional ones of things from my collection.
User avatar
bandrow
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 12:55 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by bandrow »

Greetings,

I personally have never seen a specimen of either Xixuthrus heros or Xixuthrus heyrovskyi - neither are present in the Carnegie collection. Our holdings of South American and African materials are much stronger than those of the Asian and Indo-Australian regions.

To bring things up to date - Xixuthrus heyrovskyi Tippman, 1945 was synonymized with Xixuthrus terribilis Thomson, 1877, so terribilis is the current name.

And as far as rare Xixuthrus go, a candidate for "rarest" could likely be Xixuthrus domingoensis Fisher, 1932. It is the only representative of Xixuthrus in the New World and is restricted to the Dominican Republic. And no - I've never seen a specimen of this species either, but here is a link to some images: http://bezbycids.com/byciddb/wdetails.asp?id=186&w=n

Cheers!
Bandrow
Chuck
Premium Member - 2024
Premium Member - 2024
Reactions:
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Chuck »

bandrow wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:58 am Xixuthrus domingoensis Fisher, 1932. It is the only representative of Xixuthrus in the New World and is restricted to the Dominican Republic.
No kidding! How the heck would Xixuthrus get to, or even wind up on via evolution, DR?????? Hispaniola is volcanic, so not like Xixuthrus got stuck there from continental drift. I wonder, is it really Xixuthrus genetically?
User avatar
bandrow
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 12:55 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by bandrow »

Hi Chuck,

I've always wondered the same thing. I've also found it somewhat interesting that it wasn't described until 1932 - leaving a lot of "modern" time for something to get introduced and established. For comparison, the other stunning prionid in the DR, Callipogon sericeum, was described in 1795 by Olivier, so collecting was well under way there before the turn of the 19th century.

And as far as large species getting introduced, Batocera rufomaculata is now established in Puerto Rico. When the museum staff returned from there in 1996 with two specimens of Batocera in the light trap samples, I figured someone had really messed up, but they were legit.

I don't know if anyone has done any genetic work on the DR taxon but I wouldn't be shocked at all if it was introduced via commerce in the late 19th/early 20th century.

Cheers!
Bandrow
User avatar
bandrow
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 12:55 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by bandrow »

Hi All,

I did some digging and found two papers involving the generic placement of Xixuthrus domingoensis - one in favor of retaining it in the original genus and one placing it into the Neotropical genus Mecosarthron. Some discussion of the possibility of it being an introduced species is found the "pro-Xixuthrus" paper...

Argument for the genus Mecosarthron:
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/part/270191

Argument for the genus Xixuthrus:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _Prioninae

I need to read these more closely, but I didn't immediately see any reference to any genetic evidence...

Cheers!
Bandrow
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Trehopr1 »

What would such a discussion like this be without personal
evidence of the "grandeur" and pride of ownership that goes
with finally achieving your OWN example of these Mega-beetles !

Here is my singular example of T. giganteus. It is of modest size
(for the species) but, was sensibly affordable at the same time.
Prices for larger ones only get exponentially worse after about
the 14.8 cm mark....

I took the liberty of preparing it in a lifelike posture befitting
of the "attitude" which these deep forest denizens show.

Image
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by Trehopr1 »

Another of the great ones is this primeval-looking
monster of the Amazon region. Its distribution is
rather wide with its presence in Brazil, Peru, Ecuador,
Columbia, Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, and French
Guiana. Males run the gamut of size from as little
as 8 or 9 cm on up to the record of 17.7 cm (owned
by a japanese collector).

Many of the local peoples commonly know of this
beetle as "the Sawman" and upon seeing this sizeable
example in my collection a Peruvian student automatically
remarked just that !

This species actually ranks as my "personal favorite" amongst
the Giants of the beetle realm. Its seriously major mandibles,
striped patterns, and ill-tempered attitude really round-out
the "package" of greatness for a species.

Again, prepared in a lifelike stance befitting the species !

Image
User avatar
kevinkk
Premium Member - 2024
Premium Member - 2024
Reactions:
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 5:06 pm
Location: Oregon
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by kevinkk »

Another interesting thread. I'll probably never own a Titanus specimen, can I afford 2k for a beetle? Yes. There's more to it than that- once I start buying big showy beetles, there's no end in sight.
I agree with Titanus being the largest, with mass being the deciding factor. It must be something to pick up one of those with both hands off your
light. I have seen one in a private collection years ago, and had my share of big beetles back in the 80's when things were affordable, unfortunately,
they've been lost to life's tribulations, including my prize from the Dominican Republic collected in the early 80's on one of those organized collecting trips by Emmel if I recall correctly, an unnamed prionid I grabbed off a roof at the lodge, a handful of beetle at the time.
Titanus is the upper limit of bug size given the way that insects breathe, and that's where mass comes into play when deciding who's biggest.
Here in the PNW (pacific northwest) our largest beetles are pine sawyers and prionids.
User avatar
58chevy
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 5:58 pm
Location: Houston, TX USA
United States of America

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by 58chevy »

About a decade ago I was lucky enough to get a Titanus for FREE!! A friend felt sorry for me and gave it to me when he found out I had cancer. I have since recovered from the cancer and now I feel sorry for him because he gave away such a valuable bug.
User avatar
boghaunter1
Premium Member - 2024
Premium Member - 2024
Reactions:
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 7:16 pm
Canada

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by boghaunter1 »

Some big beetles offered for sale online in the past,

Macrodontis cervicornis, 170mm, Peru, $1,899.00 USD
Macrodontia cervicornis 170mm, - Peru, $1,899.00 USD, BIN, HUGE.jpg
Macrodontia cervicornis 170mm, - Peru, $1,899.00 USD, BIN, HUGE.jpg (231.46 KiB) Viewed 11573 times
Callipogon armillatus 138mm - Peru, $3,499.00 USD
Callipogon armillatus, Monster 138mm, Peru, BIN $3,499.00 USD II.jpg
Callipogon armillatus, Monster 138mm, Peru, BIN $3,499.00 USD II.jpg (249.93 KiB) Viewed 11573 times
John K.
User avatar
boghaunter1
Premium Member - 2024
Premium Member - 2024
Reactions:
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 7:16 pm
Canada

Re: Biggest Beetle

Post by boghaunter1 »

Some big beetles offered for sale online in the past II,

Titanus giganteus, 163mm, $2,776.34 CAD (Cheap... broken elytra & in Canadian $$!)
Titanus giganteus 163mmm, $2,776.34 CAD, 2,120 Euros 17Apr2015.jpg
Titanus giganteus 163mmm, $2,776.34 CAD, 2,120 Euros 17Apr2015.jpg (112.49 KiB) Viewed 11571 times
Titanus giganteus, 161mm, $2,776.34 CAD (Cheap... in Canadian $$!)
Titanus giganteus, 161mm, USD $3,560.00, CAD $4,391.44, 33 bids, June 2015.jpg
Titanus giganteus, 161mm, USD $3,560.00, CAD $4,391.44, 33 bids, June 2015.jpg (178.71 KiB) Viewed 11571 times
John K.
Last edited by boghaunter1 on Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in