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Papilio machaonides
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:40 pm
by daveuk
Pair from the Dominican Republic purchased at an entomogical fair at Kempton Park, London, U.K. in 2011.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:41 pm
by Yorky
I remember you getting these, I have 2 males and a female, I'll have to dig out pictures.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:28 pm
by bobw
Yorky wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:41 pm
I remember you getting these, I have 2 males and a female, I'll have to dig out pictures.
I seem to remember you getting these as well!
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:32 pm
by daveuk
bobw wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:28 pm
Yorky wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:41 pm
I remember you getting these, I have 2 males and a female, I'll have to dig out pictures.
I seem to remember you getting these as well!
Thanks Bob. They are lovely !!
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:42 pm
by joachim
Hello, this reminds me of an episode from when I was younger. It's all statute-barred....
We were on a trip through Florida, Jamaica and the Dominican Republic. you are not allowed to bring live animals into the USA. But we had a caterpillar of machaonides that pupated during our stay. Well, how do you get the pupa through customs? We only had a few hours in Miami. My brilliant idea: I emptied a tube of toothpaste, put the chrysalis in it, and dusted it off. It worked perfectly, we landed in Jamaica and had a nice hotel. I took the pupa out of the tube and put it on the table in the hotel room. I hadn't noticed that she was already well developed.
In the morning I realised, overslept, the butterfly had hatched. When I tried to catch it, it fled out of the window, so there was a machaonid male in Jamaica. I guess it didn't have any effect on the fauna. Good thing it was 40 years ago.
So this male was caught years late....... It is not mine!
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:47 pm
by Jshuey
joachim wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:42 pm
Hello, this reminds me of an episode from when I was younger. It's all statute-barred....
We were on a trip through Florida, Jamaica and the Dominican Republic. you are not allowed to bring live animals into the USA. But we had a caterpillar of machaonides that pupated during our stay. Well, how do you get the pupa through customs? We only had a few hours in Miami. My brilliant idea: I emptied a tube of toothpaste, put the chrysalis in it, and dusted it off. It worked perfectly, we landed in Jamaica and had a nice hotel. I took the pupa out of the tube and put it on the table in the hotel room. I hadn't noticed that she was already well developed.
In the morning I realised, overslept, the butterfly had hatched. When I tried to catch it, it fled out of the window, so there was a machaonid male in Jamaica. I guess it didn't have any effect on the fauna. Good thing it was 40 years ago.
So this male was caught years late....... It is not mine!
Hopefully you were young and foolish when all this happened. This is exactly the type behavior that results in invasive species introductions around the world. It seems a bit irresponsible to be making light of this.
John
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:51 pm
by Chuck
@adam (or anyone else smarter than me)
Are andraemon, machaonides, aristodemus (other?) in the Carib related? It looks morphologically like they are.
Anyone have a photo of these species lined up next to each other?
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:47 pm
by adamcotton
Papilio machaonides and andraemon are closely related, although they diverged long ago, but aristodemus is not related to these. It belongs on the other main branch of the Papilio (Heraclides) clade, more closely related to P. astyalus and androgeus, although they don't look very similar.
Many people treat Heraclides as a separate genus, but I prefer to place it as a subgenus of Papilio.
Adam.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:08 am
by 58chevy
I agree, Adam. Morphologically, a subgenus of Papilio seems to be a better fit, but I'm not familiar with the DNA studies.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:19 am
by adamcotton
A paper on DNA analysis of genus Papilio (s.l.) will be submitted in the next few months. Hopefully it will be published within the coming year or so - it takes time from submission to publication.
Adam.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:19 am
by Yorky
My pair, I have another perfect male but no picture
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:28 pm
by joachim
Jshuey wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:47 pm
joachim wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:42 pm
Hello, this reminds me of an episode from when I was younger. It's all statute-barred....
We were on a trip through Florida, Jamaica and the Dominican Republic. you are not allowed to bring live animals into the USA. But we had a caterpillar of machaonides that pupated during our stay. Well, how do you get the pupa through customs? We only had a few hours in Miami. My brilliant idea: I emptied a tube of toothpaste, put the chrysalis in it, and dusted it off. It worked perfectly, we landed in Jamaica and had a nice hotel. I took the pupa out of the tube and put it on the table in the hotel room. I hadn't noticed that she was already well developed.
In the morning I realised, overslept, the butterfly had hatched. When I tried to catch it, it fled out of the window, so there was a machaonid male in Jamaica. I guess it didn't have any effect on the fauna. Good thing it was 40 years ago.
So this male was caught years late....... It is not mine!
Hopefully you were young and foolish when all this happened. This is exactly the type behavior that results in invasive species introductions around the world. It seems a bit irresponsible to be making light of this.
John
Yes, I was very young and nowadays I wouldn't do it with the risk of spending a few days in prison if we were caught at the airport. But here in Europe we have so many invasive plagues, mosquitoes, gnats.....
My friend in the dom. Republic took a photo of Papilio demoleus in her garden. I was very surprised, but I heard that the species feels at home there and is now native.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:49 am
by eurytides
That species is now established on many islands of the Caribbean. There have also been several reports from the US mainland.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:11 am
by adamcotton
eurytides wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:49 am
There have also been several reports from the US mainland.
I hadn't heard of any recent reports from the US mainland. There was one report in California (I seem to remember) many years ago, and that was presumed to be a single escapee. Have any recent US records been published?
Adam.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:59 am
by Chuck
Sorry to go off topic, but since it already is: I observed Papilio demoleus circa 2002 at El Yunque, Puerto Rico; I noted it to Dr. Miller, and she indicated it was the first such observation in PR; subsequently, I've stumbled across several other observations of the species in PR.
A quick search on iNat shows demoleus throughout the main Carib islands; one record from Louisiana.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observation ... n_id=51583
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:56 pm
by eurytides
There are also several from California. Note also that iNat is going to underestimate reality. Many butterflies go unseen. Many that are seen are unreported.
Re: Papilio machaonides
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:12 pm
by livingplanet3
I have an extremely vague memory of seeing a Kallima inachus in my backyard here in North TX, circa 1980. I'm quite sure that it was a misidentification, despite the fact that there are no local butterflies that look even remotely like this species. If it was in fact a K. inachus, I suppose there's a very remote possibility that it was an escapee.