CITES in-depth study

Discussion on the legal aspects of insect specimen trading and collecting
Chuck
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

CITES in-depth study

Post by Chuck »

CITES is poorly understood, not just by entomologists, but by authorities as well. Hopefully this thread will shed some light, and serve as a reference for entomologists, importers, and enforcement authorities. I'll be taking it step-by-step as time permits.

This is not for discussion of other topics, including Lacey, Customs, APHIS, etc. Only CITES.




CITES convention, in its entirety below. Retrieved 23 May 2022 from https://cites.org/eng/disc/text.php



(See the notes about the Bonn amendment and the Gaborone amendment)

Text of the Convention in PDF:

Preamble
Article I Definitions
Article II Fundamental principles
Article III Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species included in Appendix I
Article IV Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species included in Appendix II
Article V Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species included in Appendix III
Article VI Permits and Certificates
Article VII Exemptions and Other Special Provisions Relating to Trade
Article VIII Measures to be Taken by the Parties
Article IX Management and Scientific Authorities
Article X Trade with States not Party to the Convention
Article XI Conference of the Parties
Article XII The Secretariat
Article XIII International Measures
Article XIV Effect on Domestic Legislation and International Conventions
Article XV Amendments to Appendices I and II
Article XVI Appendix III and Amendments thereto
Article XVII Amendment of the Convention
Article XVIII Resolution of Disputes
Article XIX Signature
Article XX Ratification, Acceptance, Approval
Article XXI Accession
Article XXII Entry into Force
Article XXIII Reservations
Article XXIV Denunciation
Article XXV Depositary

Appendices I, II and III
Appendix IV "Model Export Permit" - The recommended standard CITES permit and certificate form is available in Annex 2 of Resolution Conf. 12.3 (Rev. CoP17) on Permits and certificates.
Signed at Washington, D.C., on 3 March 1973

Amended at Bonn, on 22 June 1979
Amended at Gaborone, on 30 April 1983

The Contracting States,

Recognizing that wild fauna and flora in their many beautiful and varied forms are an irreplaceable part of the natural systems of the earth which must be protected for this and the generations to come;

Conscious of the ever-growing value of wild fauna and flora from aesthetic, scientific, cultural, recreational and economic points of view;

Recognizing that peoples and States are and should be the best protectors of their own wild fauna and flora;

Recognizing, in addition, that international co-operation is essential for the protection of certain species of wild fauna and flora against over-exploitation through international trade;

Convinced of the urgency of taking appropriate measures to this end; Have agreed as follows:

Article I
Definitions

For the purpose of the present Convention, unless the context otherwise requires:

(a) "Species" means any species, subspecies, or geographically separate population thereof;

(b) "Specimen" means:

(i) any animal or plant, whether alive or dead;

(ii) in the case of an animal: for species included in Appendices I and II, any readily recognizable part or derivative thereof; and for species included in Appendix III, any readily recognizable part or derivative thereof specified in Appendix III in relation to the species; and

(iii) in the case of a plant: for species included in Appendix I, any readily recognizable part or derivative thereof; and for species included in Appendices II and III, any readily recognizable part or derivative thereof specified in Appendices II and III in relation to the species;

(c) "Trade" means export, re-export, import and introduction from the sea;

(d) "Re-export" means export of any specimen that has previously been imported;

(e) "Introduction from the sea" means transportation into a State of specimens of any species which were taken in the marine environment not under the jurisdiction of any State;

(f) "Scientific Authority" means a national scientific authority designated in accordance with Article IX;

(g) "Management Authority" means a national management authority designated in accordance with Article IX;

(h) "Party" means a State for which the present Convention has entered into force.




Article II
Fundamental Principles

1. Appendix I shall include all species threatened with extinction which are or may be affected by trade. Trade in specimens of these species must be subject to particularly strict regulation in order not to endanger further their survival and must only be authorized in exceptional circumstances.
2. Appendix II shall include:

(a) all species which although not necessarily now threatened with extinction may become so unless trade in specimens of such species is subject to strict regulation in order to avoid utilization incompatible with their survival; and

(b) other species which must be subject to regulation in order that trade in specimens of certain species referred to in sub-paragraph (a) of this paragraph may be brought under effective control.
3. Appendix III shall include all species which any Party identifies as being subject to regulation within its jurisdiction for the purpose of preventing or restricting exploitation, and as needing the co-operation of other Parties in the control of trade.

4. The Parties shall not allow trade in specimens of species included in Appendices I, II and III except in accordance with the provisions of the present Convention.


Article III
Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species Included in Appendix I

1. All trade in specimens of species included in Appendix I shall be in accordance with the provisions of this Article.

2. The export of any specimen of a species included in Appendix I shall require the prior grant and presentation of an export permit. An export permit shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:

(a) a Scientific Authority of the State of export has advised that such export will not be detrimental to the survival of that species;

(b) a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that the specimen was not obtained in contravention of the laws of that State for the protection of fauna and flora;

(c) a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that any living specimen will be so prepared and shipped as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment; and

(d) a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that an import permit has been granted for the specimen.

3. The import of any specimen of a species included in Appendix I shall require the prior grant and presentation of an import permit and either an export permit or a re-export certificate. An import permit shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:

(a) a Scientific Authority of the State of import has advised that the import will be for purposes which are not detrimental to the survival of the species involved;

(b) a Scientific Authority of the State of import is satisfied that the proposed recipient of a living specimen is suitably equipped to house and care for it; and

(c) a Management Authority of the State of import is satisfied that the specimen is not to be used for primarily commercial purposes.

4. The re-export of any specimen of a species included in Appendix I shall require the prior grant and presentation of a re-export certificate. A re-export certificate shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:

(a) a Management Authority of the State of re-export is satisfied that the specimen was imported into that State in accordance with the provisions of the present Convention;

(b) a Management Authority of the State of re-export is satisfied that any living specimen will be so prepared and shipped as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment; and

(c) a Management Authority of the State of re-export is satisfied that an import permit has been granted for any living specimen.

5. The introduction from the sea of any specimen of a species included in Appendix I shall require the prior grant of a certificate from a Management Authority of the State of introduction. A certificate shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:

(a) a Scientific Authority of the State of introduction advises that the introduction will not be detrimental to the survival of the species involved;
(b) a Management Authority of the State of introduction is satisfied that the proposed recipient of a living specimen is suitably equipped to house and care for it; and
(c) a Management Authority of the State of introduction is satisfied that the specimen is not to be used for primarily commercial purposes.



Article IV
Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species Included in Appendix II
1. All trade in specimens of species included in Appendix II shall be in accordance with the provisions of this Article.

2. The export of any specimen of a species included in Appendix II shall require the prior grant and presentation of an export permit. An export permit shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:

(a) a Scientific Authority of the State of export has advised that such export will not be detrimental to the survival of that species;

(b) a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that the specimen was not obtained in contravention of the laws of that State for the protection of fauna and flora; and

(c) a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that any living specimen will be so prepared and shipped as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment.

3. A Scientific Authority in each Party shall monitor both the export permits granted by that State for specimens of species included in Appendix II and the actual exports of such specimens. Whenever a Scientific Authority determines that the export of specimens of any such species should be limited in order to maintain that species throughout its range at a level consistent with its role in the ecosystems in which it occurs and well above the level at which that species might become eligible for inclusion in Appendix I, the Scientific Authority shall advise the appropriate Management Authority of suitable measures to be taken to limit the grant of export permits for specimens of that species.

4. The import of any specimen of a species included in Appendix II shall require the prior presentation of either an export permit or a re-export certificate.

5. The re-export of any specimen of a species included in Appendix II shall require the prior grant and presentation of a re-export certificate. A re-export certificate shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:


(a) a Management Authority of the State of re-export is satisfied that the specimen was imported into that State in accordance with the provisions of the present Convention; and

(b) a Management Authority of the State of re-export is satisfied that any living specimen will be so prepared and shipped as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment.

6. The introduction from the sea of any specimen of a species included in Appendix II shall require the prior grant of a certificate from a Management Authority of the State of introduction. A certificate shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:

(a) a Scientific Authority of the State of introduction advises that the introduction will not be detrimental to the survival of the species involved; and

(b) a Management Authority of the State of introduction is satisfied that any living specimen will be so handled as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment.

7. Certificates referred to in paragraph 6 of this Article may be granted on the advice of a Scientific Authority, in consultation with other national scientific authorities or, when appropriate, international scientific authorities, in respect of periods not exceeding one year for total numbers of specimens to be introduced in such periods.


Article V
Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species Included in Appendix III
1. All trade in specimens of species included in Appendix III shall be in accordance with the provisions of this Article.

2. The export of any specimen of a species included in Appendix III from any State which has included that species in Appendix III shall require the prior grant and presentation of an export permit. An export permit shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met:

(a) a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that the specimen was not obtained in contravention of the laws of that State for the protection of fauna and flora; and

(b) a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that any living specimen will be so prepared and shipped as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment.

3. The import of any specimen of a species included in Appendix III shall require, except in circumstances to which paragraph 4 of this Article applies, the prior presentation of a certificate of origin and, where the import is from a State which has included that species in Appendix III, an export permit.

4. In the case of re-export, a certificate granted by the Management Authority of the State of re-export that the specimen was processed in that State or is being re-exported shall be accepted by the State of import as evidence that the provisions of the present Convention have been complied with in respect of the specimen concerned.

Article VI
Permits and Certificates
1. Permits and certificates granted under the provisions of Articles III, IV, and V shall be in accordance with the provisions of this Article.
2. An export permit shall contain the information specified in the model set forth in Appendix IV, and may only be used for export within a period of six months from the date on which it was granted.

3. Each permit or certificate shall contain the title of the present Convention, the name and any identifying stamp of the Management Authority granting it and a control number assigned by the Management Authority.

4. Any copies of a permit or certificate issued by a Management Authority shall be clearly marked as copies only and no such copy may be used in place of the original, except to the extent endorsed thereon.

5. A separate permit or certificate shall be required for each consignment of specimens.

6. A Management Authority of the State of import of any specimen shall cancel and retain the export permit or re-export certificate and any corresponding import permit presented in respect of the import of that specimen.

7. Where appropriate and feasible a Management Authority may affix a mark upon any specimen to assist in identifying the specimen. For these purposes "mark" means any indelible imprint, lead seal or other suitable means of identifying a specimen, designed in such a way as to render its imitation by unauthorized persons as difficult as possible.


Article VII
Exemptions and Other Special Provisions Relating to Trade
1. The provisions of Articles III, IV and V shall not apply to the transit or transhipment of specimens through or in the territory of a Party while the specimens remain in Customs control.
2. Where a Management Authority of the State of export or re-export is satisfied that a specimen was acquired before the provisions of the present Convention applied to that specimen, the provisions of Articles III, IV and V shall not apply to that specimen where the Management Authority issues a certificate to that effect.

3. The provisions of Articles III, IV and V shall not apply to specimens that are personal or household effects. This exemption shall not apply where:

(a) in the case of specimens of a species included in Appendix I, they were acquired by the owner outside his State of usual residence, and are being imported into that State; or

(b) in the case of specimens of species included in Appendix II:

(i) they were acquired by the owner outside his State of usual residence and in a State where removal from the wild occurred;

(ii) they are being imported into the owner's State of usual residence; and

(iii) the State where removal from the wild occurred requires the prior grant of export permits before any export of such specimens; unless a Management Authority is satisfied that the specimens were acquired before the provisions of the present Convention applied to such specimens.

4. Specimens of an animal species included in Appendix I bred in captivity for commercial purposes, or of a plant species included in Appendix I artificially propagated for commercial purposes, shall be deemed to be specimens of species included in Appendix II.
5. Where a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that any specimen of an animal species was bred in captivity or any specimen of a plant species was artificially propagated, or is a part of such an animal or plant or was derived therefrom, a certificate by that Management Authority to that effect shall be accepted in lieu of any of the permits or certificates required under the provisions of Article III, IV or V.

6. The provisions of Articles III, IV and V shall not apply to the non-commercial loan, donation or exchange between scientists or scientific institutions registered by a Management Authority of their State, of herbarium specimens, other preserved, dried or embedded museum specimens, and live plant material which carry a label issued or approved by a Management Authority.

7. A Management Authority of any State may waive the requirements of Articles III, IV and V and allow the movement without permits or certificates of specimens which form part of a travelling zoo, circus, menagerie, plant exhibition or other travelling exhibition provided that:

(a) the exporter or importer registers full details of such specimens with that Management Authority;

(b) the specimens are in either of the categories specified in paragraph 2 or 5 of this Article; and

(c) the Management Authority is satisfied that any living specimen will be so transported and cared for as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment.




Article VIII
Measures to Be Taken by the Parties
1. The Parties shall take appropriate measures to enforce the provisions of the present Convention and to prohibit trade in specimens in violation thereof. These shall include measures:
(a) to penalize trade in, or possession of, such specimens, or both; and

(b) to provide for the confiscation or return to the State of export of such specimens.

2. In addition to the measures taken under paragraph 1 of this Article, a Party may, when it deems it necessary, provide for any method of internal reimbursement for expenses incurred as a result of the confiscation of a specimen traded in violation of the measures taken in the application of the provisions of the present Convention.

3. As far as possible, the Parties shall ensure that specimens shall pass through any formalities required for trade with a minimum of delay. To facilitate such passage, a Party may designate ports of exit and ports of entry at which specimens must be presented for clearance. The Parties shall ensure further that all living specimens, during any period of transit, holding or shipment, are properly cared for so as to minimize the risk of injury, damage to health or cruel treatment.

4. Where a living specimen is confiscated as a result of measures referred to in paragraph 1 of this Article:

(a) the specimen shall be entrusted to a Management Authority of the State of confiscation;

(b) the Management Authority shall, after consultation with the State of export, return the specimen to that State at the expense of that State, or to a rescue centre or such other place as the Management Authority deems appropriate and consistent with the purposes of the present Convention; and

(c) the Management Authority may obtain the advice of a Scientific Authority, or may, whenever it considers it desirable, consult the Secretariat in order to facilitate the decision under sub-paragraph (b) of this paragraph, including the choice of a rescue centre or other place.

5. A rescue centre as referred to in paragraph 4 of this Article means an institution designated by a Management Authority to look after the welfare of living specimens, particularly those that have been confiscated.

6. Each Party shall maintain records of trade in specimens of species included in Appendices I, II and III which shall cover:

(a) the names and addresses of exporters and importers; and

(b) the number and type of permits and certificates granted; the States with which such trade occurred; the numbers or quantities and types of specimens, names of species as included in Appendices I, II and III and, where applicable, the size and sex of the specimens in question.

7. Each Party shall prepare periodic reports on its implementation of the present Convention and shall transmit to the Secretariat:

(a) an annual report containing a summary of the information specified in sub-paragraph (b) of paragraph 6 of this Article; and

(b) a biennial report on legislative, regulatory and administrative measures taken to enforce the provisions of the present Convention.

8. The information referred to in paragraph 7 of this Article shall be available to the public where this is not inconsistent with the law of the Party concerned.


Article IX
Management and Scientific Authorities
1. Each Party shall designate for the purposes of the present Convention:
(a) one or more Management Authorities competent to grant permits or certificates on behalf of that Party; and

(b) one or more Scientific Authorities.

2. A State depositing an instrument of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession shall at that time inform the Depositary Government of the name and address of the Management Authority authorized to communicate with other Parties and with the Secretariat.

3. Any changes in the designations or authorizations under the provisions of this Article shall be communicated by the Party concerned to the Secretariat for transmission to all other Parties.

4. Any Management Authority referred to in paragraph 2 of this Article shall, if so requested by the Secretariat or the Management Authority of another Party, communicate to it impression of stamps, seals or other devices used to authenticate permits or certificates.


Article X
Trade with States not Party to the Convention
Where export or re-export is to, or import is from, a State not a Party to the present Convention, comparable documentation issued by the competent authorities in that State which substantially conforms with the requirements of the present Convention for permits and certificates may be accepted in lieu thereof by any Party.

Article XI
Conference of the Parties
1. The Secretariat shall call a meeting of the Conference of the Parties not later than two years after the entry into force of the present Convention.
2. Thereafter the Secretariat shall convene regular meetings at least once every two years, unless the Conference decides otherwise, and extraordinary meetings at any time on the written request of at least one-third of the Parties.

3. At meetings, whether regular or extraordinary, the Parties shall review the implementation of the present Convention and may:

(a) make such provision as may be necessary to enable the Secretariat to carry out its duties, and adopt financial provisions;

(b) consider and adopt amendments to Appendices I and II in accordance with Article XV;

(c) review the progress made towards the restoration and conservation of the species included in Appendices I, II and III;

(d) receive and consider any reports presented by the Secretariat or by any Party; and

(e) where appropriate, make recommendations for improving the effectiveness of the present Convention.

4. At each regular meeting, the Parties may determine the time and venue of the next regular meeting to be held in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 2 of this Article.

5. At any meeting, the Parties may determine and adopt rules of procedure for the meeting.

6. The United Nations, its Specialized Agencies and the International Atomic Energy Agency, as well as any State not a Party to the present Convention, may be represented at meetings of the Conference by observers, who shall have the right to participate but not to vote.

7. Any body or agency technically qualified in protection, conservation or management of wild fauna and flora, in the following categories, which has informed the Secretariat of its desire to be represented at meetings of the Conference by observers, shall be admitted unless at least one-third of the Parties present object:

(a) international agencies or bodies, either governmental or non-governmental, and national governmental agencies and bodies; and

(b) national non-governmental agencies or bodies which have been approved for this purpose by the State in which they are located. Once admitted, these observers shall have the right to participate but not to vote.


Article XII
The Secretariat
1. Upon entry into force of the present Convention, a Secretariat shall be provided by the Executive Director of the United Nations Environment Programme. To the extent and in the manner he considers appropriate, he may be assisted by suitable inter-governmental or non-governmental international or national agencies and bodies technically qualified in protection, conservation and management of wild fauna and flora.

2. The functions of the Secretariat shall be:

(a) to arrange for and service meetings of the Parties;

(b) to perform the functions entrusted to it under the provisions of Articles XV and XVI of the present Convention;

(c) to undertake scientific and technical studies in accordance with programmes authorized by the Conference of the Parties as will contribute to the implementation of the present Convention, including studies concerning standards for appropriate preparation and shipment of living specimens and the means of identifying specimens;

(d) to study the reports of Parties and to request from Parties such further information with respect thereto as it deems necessary to ensure implementation of the present Convention;

(e) to invite the attention of the Parties to any matter pertaining to the aims of the present Convention;

(f) to publish periodically and distribute to the Parties current editions of Appendices I, II and III together with any information which will facilitate identification of specimens of species included in those Appendices;

(g) to prepare annual reports to the Parties on its work and on the implementation of the present Convention and such other reports as meetings of the Parties may request;

(h) to make recommendations for the implementation of the aims and provisions of the present Convention, including the exchange of information of a scientific or technical nature;

(i) to perform any other function as may be entrusted to it by the Parties.


Article XIII
International Measures
1. When the Secretariat in the light of information received is satisfied that any species included in Appendix I or II is being affected adversely by trade in specimens of that species or that the provisions of the present Convention are not being effectively implemented, it shall communicate such information to the authorized Management Authority of the Party or Parties concerned.
2. When any Party receives a communication as indicated in paragraph 1 of this Article, it shall, as soon as possible, inform the Secretariat of any relevant facts insofar as its laws permit and, where appropriate, propose remedial action. Where the Party considers that an inquiry is desirable, such inquiry may be carried out by one or more persons expressly authorized by the Party.

3. The information provided by the Party or resulting from any inquiry as specified in paragraph 2 of this Article shall be reviewed by the next Conference of the Parties which may make whatever recommendations it deems appropriate.


Article XIV
Effect on Domestic Legislation and International Conventions
1. The provisions of the present Convention shall in no way affect the right of Parties to adopt:
(a) stricter domestic measures regarding the conditions for trade, taking, possession or transport of specimens of species included in Appendices I, II and III, or the complete prohibition thereof; or

(b) domestic measures restricting or prohibiting trade, taking, possession or transport of species not included in Appendix I, II or III.

2. The provisions of the present Convention shall in no way affect the provisions of any domestic measures or the obligations of Parties deriving from any treaty, convention, or international agreement relating to other aspects of trade, taking, possession or transport of specimens which is in force or subsequently may enter into force for any Party including any measure pertaining to the Customs, public health, veterinary or plant quarantine fields.

3. The provisions of the present Convention shall in no way affect the provisions of, or the obligations deriving from, any treaty, convention or international agreement concluded or which may be concluded between States creating a union or regional trade agreement establishing or maintaining a common external Customs control and removing Customs control between the parties thereto insofar as they relate to trade among the States members of that union or agreement.

4. A State party to the present Convention, which is also a party to any other treaty, convention or international agreement which is in force at the time of the coming into force of the present Convention and under the provisions of which protection is afforded to marine species included in Appendix II, shall be relieved of the obligations imposed on it under the provisions of the present Convention with respect to trade in specimens of species included in Appendix II that are taken by ships registered in that State and in accordance with the provisions of such other treaty, convention or international agreement.

5. Notwithstanding the provisions of Articles III, IV and V, any export of a specimen taken in accordance with paragraph 4 of this Article shall only require a certificate from a Management Authority of the State of introduction to the effect that the specimen was taken in accordance with the provisions of the other treaty, convention or international agreement in question.

6. Nothing in the present Convention shall prejudice the codification and development of the law of the sea by the United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea convened pursuant to Resolution 2750 C (XXV) of the General Assembly of the United Nations nor the present or future claims and legal views of any State concerning the law of the sea and the nature and extent of coastal and flag State jurisdiction.


Article XV
Amendments to Appendices I and II
1. The following provisions shall apply in relation to amendments to Appendices I and II at meetings of the Conference of the Parties:
(a) Any Party may propose an amendment to Appendix I or II for consideration at the next meeting. The text of the proposed amendment shall be communicated to the Secretariat at least 150 days before the meeting. The Secretariat shall consult the other Parties and interested bodies on the amendment in accordance with the provisions of sub-paragraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 of this Article and shall communicate the response to all Parties not later than 30 days before the meeting.

(b) Amendments shall be adopted by a two-thirds majority of Parties present and voting. For these purposes "Parties present and voting" means Parties present and casting an affirmative or negative vote. Parties abstaining from voting shall not be counted among the two-thirds required for adopting an amendment.

(c) Amendments adopted at a meeting shall enter into force 90 days after that meeting for all Parties except those which make a reservation in accordance with paragraph 3 of this Article.

2. The following provisions shall apply in relation to amendments to Appendices I and II between meetings of the Conference of the Parties:

(a) Any Party may propose an amendment to Appendix I or II for consideration between meetings by the postal procedures set forth in this paragraph.

(b) For marine species, the Secretariat shall, upon receiving the text of the proposed amendment, immediately communicate it to the Parties. It shall also consult inter-governmental bodies having a function in relation to those species especially with a view to obtaining scientific data these bodies may be able to provide and to ensuring co-ordination with any conservation measures enforced by such bodies. The Secretariat shall communicate the views expressed and data provided by these bodies and its own findings and recommendations to the Parties as soon as possible.

(c) For species other than marine species, the Secretariat shall, upon receiving the text of the proposed amendment, immediately communicate it to the Parties, and, as soon as possible thereafter, its own recommendations.

(d) Any Party may, within 60 days of the date on which the Secretariat communicated its recommendations to the Parties under sub-paragraph (b) or (c) of this paragraph, transmit to the Secretariat any comments on the proposed amendment together with any relevant scientific data and information.

(e) The Secretariat shall communicate the replies received together with its own recommendations to the Parties as soon as possible. (f) If no objection to the proposed amendment is received by the Secretariat within 30 days of the date the replies and recommendations were communicated under the provisions of sub-paragraph (e) of this paragraph, the amendment shall enter into force 90 days later for all Parties except those which make a reservation in accordance with paragraph 3 of this Article.

(g) If an objection by any Party is received by the Secretariat, the proposed amendment shall be submitted to a postal vote in accordance with the provisions of sub-paragraphs (h) , (i) and (j) of this paragraph.

(h) The Secretariat shall notify the Parties that notification of objection has been received.

(i) Unless the Secretariat receives the votes for, against or in abstention from at least one-half of the Parties within 60 days of the date of notification under sub-paragraph (h) of this paragraph, the proposed amendment shall be referred to the next meeting of the Conference for further consideration.

(j) Provided that votes are received from one-half of the Parties, the amendment shall be adopted by a two-thirds majority of Parties casting an affirmative or negative vote.

(k) The Secretariat shall notify all Parties of the result of the vote.

(l) If the proposed amendment is adopted it shall enter into force 90 days after the date of the notification by the Secretariat of its acceptance for all Parties except those which make a reservation in accordance with paragraph 3 of this Article.

3. During the period of 90 days provided for by sub-paragraph (c) of paragraph 1 or sub-paragraph (l) of paragraph 2 of this Article any Party may by notification in writing to the Depositary Government make a reservation with respect to the amendment. Until such reservation is withdrawn the Party shall be treated as a State not a Party to the present Convention with respect to trade in the species concerned.


Article XVI
Appendix III and Amendments thereto
1. Any Party may at any time submit to the Secretariat a list of species which it identifies as being subject to regulation within its jurisdiction for the purpose mentioned in paragraph 3 of Article II. Appendix III shall include the names of the Parties submitting the species for inclusion therein, the scientific names of the species so submitted, and any parts or derivatives of the animals or plants concerned that are specified in relation to the species for the purposes of sub-paragraph (b) of Article I.
2. Each list submitted under the provisions of paragraph 1 of this Article shall be communicated to the Parties by the Secretariat as soon as possible after receiving it. The list shall take effect as part of Appendix III 90 days after the date of such communication. At any time after the communication of such list, any Party may by notification in writing to the Depositary Government enter a reservation with respect to any species or any parts or derivatives, and until such reservation is withdrawn, the State shall be treated as a State not a Party to the present Convention with respect to trade in the species or part or derivative concerned.

3. A Party which has submitted a species for inclusion in Appendix III may withdraw it at any time by notification to the Secretariat which shall communicate the withdrawal to all Parties. The withdrawal shall take effect 30 days after the date of such communication.

4. Any Party submitting a list under the provisions of paragraph 1 of this Article shall submit to the Secretariat a copy of all domestic laws and regulations applicable to the protection of such species, together with any interpretations which the Party may deem appropriate or the Secretariat may request. The Party shall, for as long as the species in question is included in Appendix III, submit any amendments of such laws and regulations or any interpretations as they are adopted.


Article XVII
Amendment of the Convention
1. An extraordinary meeting of the Conference of the Parties shall be convened by the Secretariat on the written request of at least one-third of the Parties to consider and adopt amendments to the present Convention. Such amendments shall be adopted by a two-thirds majority of Parties present and voting. For these purposes "Parties present and voting" means Parties present and casting an affirmative or negative vote. Parties abstaining from voting shall not be counted among the two-thirds required for adopting an amendment.
2. The text of any proposed amendment shall be communicated by the Secretariat to all Parties at least 90 days before the meeting.

3. An amendment shall enter into force for the Parties which have accepted it 60 days after two-thirds of the Parties have deposited an instrument of acceptance of the amendment with the Depositary Government. Thereafter, the amendment shall enter into force for any other Party 60 days after that Party deposits its instrument of acceptance of the amendment.


Article XVIII
Resolution of Disputes
1. Any dispute which may arise between two or more Parties with respect to the interpretation or application of the provisions of the present Convention shall be subject to negotiation between the Parties involved in the dispute.
2. If the dispute can not be resolved in accordance with paragraph 1 of this Article, the Parties may, by mutual consent, submit the dispute to arbitration, in particular that of the Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague, and the Parties submitting the dispute shall be bound by the arbitral decision.


Article XIX
Signature
The present Convention shall be open for signature at Washington until 30th April 1973 and thereafter at Berne until 31st December 1974.

Article XX
Ratification, Acceptance, Approval
The present Convention shall be subject to ratification, acceptance or approval. Instruments of ratification, acceptance or approval shall be deposited with the Government of the Swiss Confederation which shall be the Depositary Government.

Article XXI
Accession
1. The present Convention shall be open indefinitely for accession. Instruments of accession shall be deposited with the Depositary Government.
2. This Convention shall be open for accession by regional economic integration organizations constituted by sovereign States which have competence in respect of the negotiation, conclusion and implementation of international agreements in matters transferred to them by their Member States and covered by this Convention.

3. In their instruments of accession, such organizations shall declare the extent of their competence with respect to the matters governed by the Convention. These organizations shall also inform the Depositary Government of any substantial modification in the extent of their competence. Notifications by regional economic integration organizations concerning their competence with respect to matters governed by this Convention and modifications thereto shall be distributed to the Parties by the Depositary Government.

4. In matters within their competence, such regional economic integration organizations shall exercise the rights and fulfil the obligations which this Convention attributes to their Member States, which are Parties to the Convention. In such cases the Member States of the organizations shall not be entitled to exercise such rights individually.

5. In the fields of their competence, regional economic integration organizations shall exercise their right to vote with a number of votes equal to the number of their Member States which are Parties to the Convention. Such organizations shall not exercise their right to vote if their Member States exercise theirs, and vice versa.

6. Any reference to “Party” in the sense used in Article I (h) of this Convention to “State”/”States” or to “State Party”/”State Parties” to the Convention shall be construed as including a reference to any regional economic integration organization having competence in respect of the negotiation, conclusion and application of international agreements in matters covered by this Convention.


Article XXII
Entry into Force
1. The present Convention shall enter into force 90 days after the date of deposit of the tenth instrument of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession, with the Depositary Government.
2. For each State which ratifies, accepts or approves the present Convention or accedes thereto after the deposit of the tenth instrument of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession, the present Convention shall enter into force 90 days after the deposit by such State of its instrument of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession.


Article XXIII
Reservations
1. The provisions of the present Convention shall not be subject to general reservations. Specific reservations may be entered in accordance with the provisions of this Article and Articles XV and XVI.
2. Any State may, on depositing its instrument of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession, enter a specific reservation with regard to:

(a) any species included in Appendix I, II or III; or

(b) any parts or derivatives specified in relation to a species included in Appendix III.

3. Until a Party withdraws its reservation entered under the provisions of this Article, it shall be treated as a State not a Party to the present Convention with respect to trade in the particular species or parts or derivatives specified in such reservation.


Article XXIV
Denunciation
Any Party may denounce the present Convention by written notification to the Depositary Government at any time. The denunciation shall take effect twelve months after the Depositary Government has received the notification.

Article XXV
Depositary
1. The original of the present Convention, in the Chinese, English, French, Russian and Spanish languages, each version being equally authentic, shall be deposited with the Depositary Government, which shall transmit certified copies thereof to all States that have signed it or deposited instruments of accession to it.

2. The Depositary Government shall inform all signatory and acceding States and the Secretariat of signatures, deposit of instruments of ratification, acceptance, approval or accession, entry into force of the present Convention, amendments thereto, entry and withdrawal of reservations and notifications of denunciation.

3. As soon as the present Convention enters into force, a certified copy thereof shall be transmitted by the Depositary Government to the Secretariat of the United Nations for registration and publication in accordance with Article 102 of the Charter of the United Nations.

In witness whereof the undersigned Plenipotentiaries, being duly authorized to that effect, have signed the present Convention.

Done at Washington this third day of March, One Thousand Nine Hundred and Seventy-three.
Chuck
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Chuck »

Definitions


Let's start with the one that gets people all wound up: THE CITES PERMIT. Gotta have that magical CITES permit, huh? Has to come with any imported shipment of CITES II butterflies, right?


Appendix IV "Model Export Permit" - The recommended standard CITES permit and certificate form is available in Annex 2 of Resolution Conf. 12.3 (Rev. CoP17) on Permits and certificates.

Catch that "recommended" part? You know what recommended means? Nothing. It means nothing.

IF and only if the exporting country elects to use the "recommended standard CITES permit form" will your incoming paperwork have all the nice CITES logo, layout, etc.


2. An export permit shall contain the information specified in the model set forth in Appendix IV, and may only be used for export within a period of six months from the date on which it was granted.

But, this circle-jerk reference to model as Appendix IV means that your export permit has to have all the same details as the recommended CITES form. Which is effectively the same as any old packing list, plus block 10.

3. Each permit or certificate shall contain the title of the present Convention, the name and any identifying stamp of the Management Authority granting it and a control number assigned by the Management Authority.

So what is this mystical CITES permit? It's not required. What is required is a detailed packing list that says CONVENTION ON
INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN ENDANGERED SPECIES OF WILD FAUNA AND FLORA

And indicates whether the specimen is wild, ranched, or bred. And is stamped by the export authority. It can be on a napkin, or a bar tab. It can be in crayon. It can be an Excel spreadsheet. It can read "Joe's Bug Exports" or "Commercial Invoice", so long as somewhere it has the CITES name written out.
Last edited by Chuck on Mon May 23, 2022 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chuck
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Chuck »

THE FOLLOWING EXCERPT FROM CITES HAD BEEN REDACTED
To allow for more readily understood discussions specific to the export/import of dead CITES II insects, and ONLY those. Everything else, including CITES I, preambles, live export, re-export, and flowery diplomat-speak has been redacted.


Article II, item 4. The Parties shall not allow trade in specimens of species included in Appendices I, II and III except in accordance with the provisions of the present Convention.

Article II summary: no export unless the below conditions are met


Article IV: Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species Included in Appendix II
1. All trade in specimens of species included in Appendix II shall be in accordance with the provisions of this Article.
2. The export of any specimen of a species included in Appendix II shall require the prior grant and presentation of an export permit. An export permit shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met [summarized: exporting nation requirements]
3. [exporting nation requirements]
4. The import of any specimen of a species included in Appendix II shall require the prior presentation of either an export permit or a re-export certificate.

Article IV summary: gotta have an export permit



Article VI Permits and Certificates

1. Permits and certificates granted under the provisions of Articles III, IV, and V shall be in accordance with the provisions of this Article.
2. An export permit shall contain the information specified in the model set forth in Appendix IV, and may only be used for export within a period of six months from the date on which it was granted.
3. Each permit or certificate shall contain the title of the present Convention, the name and any identifying stamp of the Management Authority granting it and a control number assigned by the Management Authority.
4. Any copies of a permit or certificate issued by a Management Authority shall be clearly marked as copies only and no such copy may be used in place of the original, except to the extent endorsed thereon.
5. A separate permit or certificate shall be required for each consignment of specimens.
6. A Management Authority of the State of import of any specimen shall cancel and retain the export permit or re-export certificate and any corresponding import permit presented in respect of the import of that specimen.
7. Where appropriate and feasible a Management Authority may affix a mark upon any specimen to assist in identifying the specimen. For these purposes "mark" means any indelible imprint, lead seal or other suitable means of identifying a specimen, designed in such a way as to render its imitation by unauthorized persons as difficult as possible.


Article VI summary: export permit must have CITES title, and carry an official stamp. Import agency (USFWS) will keep the original.



Article VII Exemptions and Other Special Provisions Relating to Trade
1. [redacted]
2. Where a Management Authority of the State of export or re-export is satisfied that a specimen was acquired before the provisions of the present Convention applied to that specimen, the provisions of Articles III, IV and V shall not apply to that specimen where the Management Authority issues a certificate to that effect.
3. The provisions of Articles III, IV and V shall not apply to specimens that are personal or household effects. This exemption shall not apply where:
(a) [redacted]
(b) in the case of specimens of species included in Appendix II:
(i) they were acquired by the owner outside his State of usual residence and in a State where removal from the wild occurred;
(ii) they are being imported into the owner's State of usual residence; and
(iii) the State where removal from the wild occurred requires the prior grant of export permits before any export of such specimens; unless a Management Authority is satisfied that the specimens were acquired before the provisions of the present Convention applied to such specimens.
4. [redacted].

5. Where a Management Authority of the State of export is satisfied that any specimen of an animal species was bred in captivity or any specimen of a plant species was artificially propagated, or is a part of such an animal or plant or was derived therefrom, a certificate by that Management Authority to that effect shall be accepted in lieu of any of the permits or certificates required under the provisions of Article III, IV or V.

6. [redacted].
7. [redacted]


Article VII Summary: If the specimen pre-dates CITES, "and" the management authority of that country says so, no permits required. if you move you can take CITES II bugs with you, so long as they came from your original country of residence. ***If the specimen was captive bred, all you need is a "certificate" not all the permits, etc.


As one can see, even the short version really is focusing on the government agencies of the exporting country. Pay particular attention to VII .5 for captive bred specimen export document requirements.
Last edited by Chuck on Mon May 23, 2022 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chuck
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Chuck »

Summary of CITES II and dead bugs

If one reads the redacted part concerning CITES II, and then further cuts out the parts over which they personally have no control (e.g., what the Managing Authority is responsible for) it become readily apparent that complying with the documentary requirements of CITES is, at least superficially, fairly simple.

To import dead CITES II bugs direct from the nation of origin an export document is required, with the data and approval as cited above. This part is not the challenge; this has been done for decades.

How to find the Managing Authority, and satisfying them, is the challenge. There may be, in fact, more than one MA (e.g., Natural Resources and Dept. of Education.) Further, in some countries, some "people" may pretend to have / be the Authority. How do you know? Factually, one would have to read the charter of the country's government- good luck.

Per CITES, signatories are supposed to keep the deemed Authorities update, but they don't. And this can create problems with USFWS on import. For example, upon my first import USFWS challenged the authenticity of my export license and wanted to call the MA. So they pulled out their handy list of MAs and tried to call. Well, first of all it was the middle of the night there, and second of all the building had been burned down three years prior. And the listed MA person, well despised by just about everyone, had been driven out of government. I laughed. They looked at me like I was an idiot. They finally believed me.

The CITES website as of 24 May 22 lists three MAs for Solomon Islands. The first MA listed, Joe Horokou, hasn't been there since before the record was last updated. How this happened I don't know. I mean, I know how it is Joe left, I don't know how CITES could have an updated record of a MA point of contact who wasn't there at the time. Further, CITES no longer lists Dept. of Education as a MA, though I don't know why.

All of that is a bit moot since MAs tend to be busy and don't answer phone/ email. It's not just national authorities, my local state park econ team doesn't either. Remember, these are typically "field" people who rose to the rank of "crap desk job" and still hate paperwork. Whether Solomon Islands or Ecuador or the regional econ team, the only way I can catch them is to go there and track them down. Much easier locally than a foreign country- but those that invest the time and effort are typically those who succeed.

More than likely, most people will not personally export, but will be the importer for CITES II specimens. In this case, it is IMPERATIVE that the export document, by whatever name, provide the required CITES-specified data. Foreign suppliers are notoriously lax at documentation and accuracy. It's probably best to send a file for the exporter to complete, and you approve it BEFORE he/she ships anything.

CITES says nothing about retaining records post-import. Common sense says the importer should.
Last edited by Chuck on Tue May 24, 2022 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chuck
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Chuck »

Commercially bred CITES I


Article III.3. The import of any specimen of a species included in Appendix I shall require the prior grant and presentation of an import permit and either an export permit or a re-export certificate. An import permit shall only be granted when the following conditions have been met [bureaucracy redacted]

Article VII. 4. Specimens of an animal species included in Appendix I bred in captivity for commercial purposes, or of a plant species included in Appendix I artificially propagated for commercial purposes, shall be deemed to be specimens of species included in Appendix II.

Noting that the text thus far for CITES dates to 1973, there naturally have been discussions and decisions concerning many topics, including captive and commercially bred CITES I species. It would appear (not surprisingly) that CITES has concern for trade in reportedly captive-bred CITES I that are not.

For example, CITES review of “reported as produced in captivity” https://cites.org/sites/default/files/d ... 07-R18.pdf

And https://cites.org/sites/default/files/d ... 10-R15.pdf which says that breeding CITES I for commercial purposes should be “restricted”, breeding operations should be locally licensed, but leaves the exporting decision to the Managing Authority.

SUMMARY: Dead CITES I bugs bred for commercial purposes are exported and imported like CITES II.
Noting a prior discussion on the old Insectnet.com concerning a bunch of very fresh looking CITES I Bhutanis, if they were bred commercially they could have been exported as CITES II.
Chuck
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Chuck »

Note on US Import laws

A final short note on US import laws. I am not an attorney, none of my posts in this thread should be considered legal advise. You are responsible for knowing the laws of the export country and USA.

CITES is far from the only laws governing import of dead bugs. There's Lacey Act, Endangered Species Act, and even those involving OFAC and others.

There are complications.

US import laws are codified (meaning, compiled and published so you can read them).

CITES is embedded in US law. Somewhat as an aside, many people get all crazy when US government refuses to join some global control group or another. And this is a good example why everyone should be concerned- when CITES changes, as a signatory to CITES it gets rolled into US law. In other words, a foreign entity is writing US law, without congressional approval.

Now, that word "codified." Not all laws/ changes get codified, instead they get printed in a tiny blip in the Federal Register, and voila, they're law. Good luck finding these (that's why wildlife import lawyers are a good idea.)

And this has happened. In one case, CITES had a fight with a Managing Authority about the MA's CITES-forced reporting, so CITES decided to stick it to them and had a ruling banning export of CITES species from that country, and this became one of those hidden little US laws buried in the Federal Register.

Point is then, you can do due diligence, follow what you find from CITES (etc.) and 95% chance you'll do it right. BUT there's always that 5% chance you don't.

Final point, please: stop repeating inaccurate statements concerning CITES and export and import. You're not doing anyone any favors by repeating old wive's tales.
User avatar
radusho
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 3:40 pm
Slovakia

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by radusho »

An important note: none of this is applicable for EU
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by wollastoni »

Why ?
User avatar
radusho
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 3:40 pm
Slovakia

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by radusho »

EU has specien in Appendices A, B, C (not I, II, III), species are not distributed identicaly. Some species from CITES II are in EU CITES A list and are treated as regular CITES I. In EU the leading authority is European Council that provdes exact (more or less) rules then accepted by every EU member country. It is almast the same but it can differ is subtle details that can be crucial
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Trehopr1 »

A depth of gratitude goes out to you Chuck
for your presentation of this topic !

Hopefully, this well delivered piece will be utilized
whenever anyone has a question about it.

Well done.
Chuck
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Chuck »

radusho wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:13 pm EU has specien in Appendices A, B, C (not I, II, III), species are not distributed identicaly. Some species from CITES II are in EU CITES A list and are treated as regular CITES I. In EU the leading authority is European Council that provdes exact (more or less) rules then accepted by every EU member country. It is almast the same but it can differ is subtle details that can be crucial
Interesting if comprehensively correct. Most if not all EU countries are signatories to CITES so they “should” be complying with CITES. I’m not familiar with the application or enforcement of EU laws, so I can’t say for certain. But it is odd, if this is the case.
User avatar
adamcotton
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:24 pm
Location: Thailand
Thailand

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by adamcotton »

I suspect that you have to comply with both CITES AND EU law when importing specimens into the EU.

As far as I know (correct me if this is wrong) specimens with paperwork can be moved between countries within the EU without having to ask for additional documents.

Adam.
jonathan
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat May 28, 2022 2:10 pm
Malta

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by jonathan »

adamcotton wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 9:13 pm I suspect that you have to comply with both CITES AND EU law when importing specimens into the EU.

As far as I know (correct me if this is wrong) specimens with paperwork can be moved between countries within the EU without having to ask for additional documents.

Adam.
Yes Adam, once imported in the EU specimens can move freely within the EU with just a photocopy of the original CITES document.
Chuck
Meek
Meek
Reactions:
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Chuck »

TRADE IN DEAD CITES BUGS ONCE IMPORTED

There's been a lot of banter (much incorrect) about the legality of selling and buying of CITES specimens within a country.

In summary (according to US law) think of it this way: if the bug was captured or imported illegally, then it's still illegal.

CITES itself is only concerned with export and import. And, if you read the whole thing, it focuses primarily on the government authorities at the origin. CITES does no address (so far as dead bugs are concerned) trade in dead bugs within a country. HOWEVER do not think that if you "slipped one in" it becomes legal- it is not.

But IF all legal conditions are met (compliance with CITES particularly on the export side, and compliance with USFWS on the import, and some other laws) and a bunch of CITES (even CITES I) specimens are legally imported (or were legally imported prior to CITES) then one may freely sell and buy those specimens within country. That's not to say some species (particularly if offered in quantity) won't get you on the USFWS radar, and they might ask questions.

There is no requirement to have documentation of CITES or USFWS legal import accompany a specimen once imported. [as an aside, read CITES- USFWS has the authority to mark specimens to prevent later fakes- though I've never heard of this being done.] BUT it's a good idea- better to pull out some sort of "proof" provenance than have a grumpy USFWS team seize everything for review. Ianni used to provide a little label with Ornithoptera they sold; when I sold CITES specimens I provided a label with the import license number.

Oh goodie, so you have have an old Meek CITES I butterfly in USA and want to sell it. Not so fast.

You might be OK under CITES, since it predates CITES, but you could run afoul of the Lacey Act of 1900. The real meat of Lacey reads:

It is unlawful for any person—

(1) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law;

(2) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce—

(A) any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of any State or in violation of any foreign law;


Now, let me go out on a limb with this example: USFWS already has a beef with you. You advertise for sale a Meek Ornithoptera. It is documented that Meek didn't always follow the laws (of, at the time, Australia) [note: certainly for birds; I can't think of any citation that this applies to butterflies]. So it is possible that Meek illegally obtained or sold that specimen. USFWS and USDA (USDA controls Lacey) then get a warrant and seizes that specimen, your collection, your computer, and your phone.

Now, to get a conviction, USDA would have to obtain, then demonstrate an unlawful specimen, according to Australian law and Lacey (and USFWS laws, and Endangered Species Act) as they existed at that time. Though for US law, it may also include how it reads now. That's a real stretch. BUT while they're busy investigating, and perhaps prosecuting, you're without your computer, and paying tens of thousands of dollars to a lawyer. And, even if found not guilty, and ordered by a court to return your stuff, they may elect to ignore the court and simply not do it. I can't think of a situation where this specifically occurred with USFWS concerning butterflies, but ALL of that has happened with other collectibles. As is said in USA "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."

So IF you have a legal CITES specimen in USA you can sell it; you can buy it. IF it has any sort of provenance, ALWAYS ensure that accompanies the specimen. IF you have two dozen bred CITES I specimens that were imported as CITES II and advertise that, plan to get a call or visit- keep your paperwork (licenses, etc.) handy (I had also sent copies overseas so my paperwork can't "disappear") to hopefully satisfy the investigators. IF you're trying to do something shady, they'll smell it, and you're quite likely to wind up in trouble.
robert dodd
New member
New member
Reactions:
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:11 am
Thailand

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by robert dodd »

Funny how so many cites species are offered in the USA with no cites so how do they get away with it
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by wollastoni »

Dear Robert

Good to see you here.
I highly doubt "many" CITES species are offered in the USA with no Cites (especially above the table)
From what I see, only Asian and Russian dealers are non respecting Cites rules. It would be very risky for a dealer to openly break the CITES laws in the USA. I know well the market and can't find any American dealers selling CITES species without permit.

I guess you are mixing "Russian sellers on ebay.com" with "the USA".
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Trehopr1 »

Perhaps, the misconception is that more often than not specimens which are pictured (here) by anyone in the US are ones from older collections.

In the early 1990s Mr Ianni was getting cites documents for all of his birdwings that he was selling. He sold them for many years during that decade. Prior to him, the butterfly company out of Far Rockaway., New York sold O. Alexandrea as pairs for as little as $125 in the mid to late seventies. There were also a (host) of smaller dealers involved across the US who eventually closed up shop once cites came into play.

The point is for approximately three decades prior to cites there was a lot of insect material sold to collectors all over who were at least a full generation (10+ years or more) ahead of my generation which is now in their early sixties. Many of these former collectors have aged out, died off, or have been parting out their more valuable (portions) of their collections over these last 20 years.

Some of their collections have indeed found homes at the McGuire Center as well as a few museum slots. However, since most museums are only giving you pennies on the dollar for anything; there are some who seek to get better return back from their former purchases. Thus, they put the word out that their collections are available.

I have NEVER purchased anything expensive as a papered specimen. Too much risk not knowing what you find upon opening the wings. Maybe you're lucky and it's A1 or maybe you're unlucky and it's full of wing scratches or other "wing-mars" enough to make you sick or at least demoralized....

So, for me if I have a pricey, rare, or hard to get species then I guarantee you I got it from someone else's collection !

To quote two other older collectors I've personally met who didn't even know each other; both said:
"I have done some of my best collecting; in other people's collections" !!
jellybean
New member
New member
Reactions:
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 25, 2022 10:56 pm
United States of America

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by jellybean »

wollastoni wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:59 pm Dear Robert

Good to see you here.
I highly doubt "many" CITES species are offered in the USA with no Cites (especially above the table)
From what I see, only Asian and Russian dealers are non respecting Cites rules. It would be very risky for a dealer to openly break the CITES laws in the USA. I know well the market and can't find any American dealers selling CITES species without permit.

I guess you are mixing "Russian sellers on ebay.com" with "the USA".
Wollastoni,
Looks like many CITES birdwing species are being sold by a USA seller on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=28 ... 01&mkevt=1
He is selling 384 birdwing specimens in 33 listings. Two listings are specimens from the Solomon Is. Only 5 listings say "with CITES permits". In one listing the seller says he has been in the insect trade nearly 70 years. Maybe he got most of the birdwings before they were listed on CITES ?
User avatar
Paul K
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 6:44 pm
Canada

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by Paul K »

jellybean wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:41 am
wollastoni wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:59 pm Dear Robert

Good to see you here.
I highly doubt "many" CITES species are offered in the USA with no Cites (especially above the table)
From what I see, only Asian and Russian dealers are non respecting Cites rules. It would be very risky for a dealer to openly break the CITES laws in the USA. I know well the market and can't find any American dealers selling CITES species without permit.


I guess you are mixing "Russian sellers on ebay.com" with "the USA".
Wollastoni,
Looks like many CITES birdwing species are being sold by a USA seller on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item=28 ... 01&mkevt=1
He is selling 384 birdwing specimens in 33 listings. Two listings are specimens from the Solomon Is. Only 5 listings say "with CITES permits". In one listing the seller says he has been in the insect trade nearly 70 years. Maybe he got most of the birdwings before they were listed on CITES ?
“Poking into hornets nest” 😅
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: CITES in-depth study

Post by wollastoni »

Well, Limmer must have some permits or proofs these are old pre-CITES specimens.
Otherwise he will soon be in the local newspaper ! :)
I don't know the guy but I can't see how an American, especially a dealer, would sell CITES specimens without permits on eBay... would be so stupid...
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in