InsectNet forum

Any experts on Papilio rutulus?

Is there a spring form- small, canadensis-like that flies in parts of Colorado where canadensis is not reported?

What about the hooked-FW rutulus from California? Are they a separate ssp? Any insights?

Thanks!

I have found your studies, Chuck to be interesting, because I think Papilio rutulus is one form as far as I know. I have never read anything about
there being different rutulus forms.
I wasn't aware of a possible Calif. "something". We have mountain ranges that probably deter population mixing, and the Pacific coast is long and has varied geography.
I have found Papilio zelicaon in very different sizes between coastal and inland populations, and eurymedon seems to have some size variation
as well, but that's just personal observation and without any leg work trying to track down differences.

Actually, I've expected this to come up, presumably by someone with a good answer to your question.

OK. Tyler's Swallowtails of North America 1975 mentions a possible subspecies near Reno NV called ammoni, and a subspecies arizonensis.
Pyle doesn't mention anything in his Butterflies of Cascadia.

The names arizonensis Edwards, 1883 and ammoni Behrens, 1887 are both available but considered as junior synonyms of Papilio rutulus Lucas, 1852, which does not have any currently recognised subspecies.

Of course it is possible that there could be unrecognised taxa in what is currently treated as Papilio or Pterourus rutulus.

Adam.

Thanks guys.

Last night I decided to tackle both the Drawer From Hell ("canadensis") and Spring Forms, and clean that mess.

Two specimens from May from Jefferson and Boulder counties CO were labeled "canadensis", and are quite small, but there are no canadensis reported from CO. Thus the reason for that question. These are what I'd call Spring Form, looking more-canadensis than summer rutulus, but I guess they provisionally go into the rutulus drawer. Let someone else figure it out.

And in moving some of the clearly-not-canadensis, a couple specimens went into the rutulus drawer where I re-noticed that a couple specimens from CA (not same location) have very hooked FWs.

Show us a picture of the hooked-forewing rutulus. I've never heard of it.

I have never seen any rutulus that look like canadensis in Colorado and I think rutulus has only one flight here and most of the interior west. Probably the only place with multiple flights is lowland california.

One more separated population of rutulus is the sky islands in SE Arizona. The black hills is also an interesting location where canadensis, rutulus and glancus all come together.

Here is a random sampling of P. rutulus from northern Utah, most of which were collected in the Salt Lake valley and surrounding areas in the 1940's through 1960's. The specimen in the upper right corner of the last photo could be P. eurymedon or a hybrid between the two. There are some examples here that seem to exhibit hooked forewings, at least to some degree.

Papilio_indra wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 6:11 pm right corner of the last photo could be P. eurymedon or a hybrid between the two

Interesting, I had to look at the book for the normal differences. Apparently wider bandwith is the normal typical difference besides color between eurymedon and rutulus. Now that I see it, it could be a tough call with the obvious amount of variation. Except for the color, and slightly
wider bands on the wings, the respective species look a lot alike. I see the hooking as well, most likely more variation.

Left is the small one I was asking if it might be spring form rutulus. I have two from the Denver area, two different counties, both May. Also one the same size and looks similar from Arizona.

Right specimen is a typical rutulus from late June COS. Most of the rutulus I have, from all over, are about the same size, except the two COS May and the one Az.

So are the small ones just an accidental sample, and most May individuals larger?

Thanks Vernon. That species is what I was thinking about- amongst others.

But the question remains- does Papilio rutulus have a "spring form" (whatever that may mean) or are these just small individuals?

Chuck wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:07 pm But the question remains- does Papilio rutulus have a "spring form" (whatever that may mean) or are these just small individuals?

That would probably take some study. the book says 1 brood in northernly habitat and more in warmer areas, just from observation, I'd call Oregon a northernly habitat. I see Papilio rutulus in the spring through midsummer, but never late in the season, like August or Sept.

Not everything laid late makes it either. The zelicaon larva I found at home in late October had no chance of maturing, and ended up expiring.

kevinkk wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 6:46 pm
That would probably take some study. the book says 1 brood in northernly habitat and more in warmer areas,

I'd think we have enough people in CO, and more people with collections of rutulus to answer.

"Brood" opens a whole new can of worms, as Vernon has shown what may look like a continuous, eight month flight period may indeed demonstrate multiplicity in peak emergences.

At least in CO, there is no evidence that there are multiple emergences of rutulus. So the only question then is if all the early individuals are small and/or may have other morphological differences. Any other hypothesis is beyond where I want to go now!

Chuck wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:10 pm So the only question then is if all the early individuals are small and/or may have other morphological differences.

No and/or no.

Rutulus is normally univoltine everywhere but California, where three broods are possible and it's (rarely) possible to see them in December even. California, especially So Cal, material tends to be both larger and richer in color than those from either further north or the interior states, which are at times pretty modest in size. Strangely enough, the rutulus around Kennedy Meadows, CA (southern Sierras) are quite a bit smaller, despite the area not being terribly high (6700').

I would say our second and third brood material is a little larger than the first post-diapause early spring emergence, but not necessarily by a ton. Now, that being said, some big summer specimens, especially females, can rival the size of many multicaudata.

In my opinion, the California material is describable.

papiliotheona wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:09 pm

In my opinion, the California material is describable.

I was just looking at some soon to be published genetic trees which include rutulus. AZ sure does stand out, as do SOME from both CA and OR. Nothing conclusive but sufficient to warrant further investigation. I’m not going to chase it down, one of you west coast guys can.

I think there might be an Alaskan subspecies or form as well- Papilio rutulus articus (Skinner 1906)

arcticus Skinner, 1906 is recognised as 'belonging to' Papilio canadensis. Some people treat it as a subspecies, others as a synonym. I don't remember it being associated with P. rutulus.

Adam.

Arcticus is indeed with canadensis. Looking at COI3’ and SNP those from AK, AB, etc each have a separate limb of the tree. So the Alaskan population is worth revisiting. But if anyone is going to bring back arcticus they might as well also describe those from SD.

Rutulus too has some interesting genetics trees. The pros seem to be into Lycaenids and Speyeria, so these Tigers aren’t getting much attention.