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Just wondering if anyone had any views on a collection habit i found with a lot of Japanese butterfly collectors in that they used to apply glue to underside wing joints in a lot of older collections.

I assume this was a way to counter the high humidity in the air in Japan for much of the year, which would otherwise cause specimen wings to 'spring'.

Adam.

adamcotton wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 4:16 pm I assume this was a way to counter the high humidity in the air in Japan for much of the year, which would otherwise cause specimen wings to 'spring'.

Adam.

Of course, i wasn't thinking about that

I have a Korean Lepidopterist visiting me today, and he mentioned that he always puts water-soluble glue on the underside of the wing bases after removing freshly spread specimens from the relaxing board. He explained that if he doesn't do that the wings either 'spring' or droop in the high humidity in summer. He also stated that the ones that droop rather than spring have rotten muscle tissue.

Adam.

Of course, understand fully, i had an Agrias narcissus that totally collapsed upon relaxing , in ornithoptera we used to call it "Jungle rot"

This has been an interesting read. What is considered "high humidity"? In my house right now it's 53%. That's probably only because it's the mostly
dry season on the coast, as opposed to the mostly wet season. I have noticed some wing movement in some dried material.

adamcotton wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:50 pm I have a Korean Lepidopterist visiting me today, and he mentioned that he always puts water-soluble glue on the underside of the wing bases after removing freshly spread specimens from the relaxing board. He explained that if he doesn't do that the wings either 'spring' or droop in the high humidity in summer. He also stated that the ones that droop rather than spring have rotten muscle tissue.

Adam.

I’m surprised the water soluble glue itself is not affected by the high humidity, and is able to hold the wings in position! It seems a solvent based glue or an epoxy would be more reliable (although those would also be more permanent if one ever wished to change the wing positions in the future), but it must work for him. I’m also surprised the water soluble glue doesn’t at least partially “re-relax” the wing joint when applied, as it seems that it would be water based. It would be interesting to know more about this particular adhesive. Perhaps it is not water based, but is still water soluble, although that seems unlikely.

kevinkk wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:45 am What is considered "high humidity"?

Humidity can reach almost 100% during the rainy season here in Thailand, and is mostly about 80% at that time (May to October here in the north), but may be higher in average in the south. On the other hand humidity gets relatively low from mid February to mid April when it is normally hot and dry. I have air conditioning in my room that keeps humidity down to about 20% or less, even when it's really high just outside the door.

My Korean visitor told me that in Korea and Japan the humidity is very high (almost 100% much of the time) during the summer, and very few people had air conditioning until recently, and many people still do not.

Adam.

In regards to water based (Pva) glues, am told by a friend thatthis does indeed soften ,in his case its Malaysia.
He uses Polystyrene adhesive thats used for plastic models.
A note also, if reattaching abdomens after degreasing , i found water soluble glue becomes soft when left in drawers with napthalene fumes.

Annarobertson1947 wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2024 1:05 am In regards to water based (Pva) glues, am told by a friend thatthis does indeed soften ,in his case its Malaysia.
He uses Polystyrene adhesive thats used for plastic models.
A note also, if reattaching abdomens after degreasing , i found water soluble glue becomes soft when left in drawers with napthalene fumes.

Napthalene should not be used in the drawers. It crystallizes on specimens.

I have found this but only in sub zero temperatures.
Thanks Paul.
Im also aware it causes liver damage, but at 77 I'm not too concerned.
My topic was glues and uses ,not insect repellant. The Nanny state hasn't banned Naphalene in Australia yet,although we are heading towards a surveillance system

I use polystyrene glue to repair damaged specimens. It works very well, dries fast, and is moisture-proof.

58chevy wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:20 pm I use polystyrene glue to repair damaged specimens. It works very well, dries fast, and is moisture-proof.

Yes it is great,i learnt this with degreasing birdwings abdomens.
Although i prefer PVA for wing repairs

adamcotton wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:46 pm Humidity can reach almost 100% during the rainy season here in Thailand

Adam,

I'm curious - do you ever use the same technique? Personally, I'm from the Philippines (average humidity ~80%) and have never had to resort to such measures. That being said, I've only been collecting for two years. Is this "spring" something that emerges gradually over, say, a decade? Then again, one would think that even a few months in our tropical climate would have resulted in a perceptible shift in wing position, especially given that Japan's peak season in terms of humidity is easily matched by most days here.

Might add that my collection is kept in a non-air conditioned part of my house - not in the usual entomological drawers, mind. Being a student (and therefore on a limited budget) I've had to improvise a lot of equipment, including storage boxes. I've been buying ready-made, latch-clasped shadow boxes online and affixing foam tape around all the edges so as to improve the seal. I've attached a picture here; please excuse the questionable mounting jobs on some of these - this box contains some very early work (and yet, no sprung wings!).



If this is indeed a problem that will arise a few years down the line, is there anything I can do to minimize its severity/prevalence in my collection?

Thanks.

I really would recommend you put your boxes in an airconditioned room if possible. Apart from the issue of gradual springing of specimens due to humidity (the process often takes many years) invisible fungi will grow on the surface of the wings and bodies in high humidity, eventually resulting in specimens having tiny spores all over them, and of course this increases the risk of Psocids attacking the specimens, since their natural food is the fungus growing on the specimens. Note that even if the store boxes are well sealed the humidity will permeate through the wood of the box.

Here in Chiang Mai we have very high humidity during the rainy season (May to October) which drops between November and February to quite low in the hot season (March-April). My collection is housed in a purpose-built airconditioned room (no windows for heat exchange and which pests can get in through), so the humidity is about 20% or less most of the time.

Since you asked, I don't put glue on the wing joints to stop specimens from springing but do sometimes use it for repairs if necessary.

Very nice specimens, by the way!

Adam.

adamcotton wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2024 10:49 am and of course this increases the risk of Psocids attacking the specimens

Thank you very much for your advice. This is precisely why joining this board is so valuable as a relative newcomer to insect collecting - for expert insight!

Indeed, I've had some trouble with Psocids before, but then I started using naphthalene balls and have had no issues since. However, upon reading what others have said on this subject, it seems that I would also benefit from reconsidering my choice of fumigant. I'm aware of the health risks posed by naphthalene, but it seemed preferable to having a thousand hours worth of mounting jobs compromised due to damage from pests (not to mention countless mosquito bites).

Has anyone had experience with paradichlorobenzene (PDB) before? Upon consideration, it's probably the only other option that is readily available to me, as it happens to be the main constituent of a local bathroom air freshener. I'm open to other suggestions, but acquiring specialized supplies is difficult in the Philippines (at least, without incurring hefty shipping costs and waiting months for a package to arrive).

With regards to my storage situation, I'm aware that it's not ideal. However, it's pretty much the best I can do currently without causing my bedroom to smell like a morgue. As such, I've used desiccant packets ad libitum, and have not had mold grow in any of my boxes. I suspect this is partly because the inside of my boxes are unvarnished, and thus can absorb some amount of moisture(?) though I have no proof that this is the case.

Anyway, thanks for the advice!

PDB is carcinogenic and considerably more dangerous than naphthalene. It's been banned by the EU for many years (as has any pesticide that actually works). However, it is just about the only thing that works and will kill dermestid outbreaks in collections. I'm down to my last two tins, and when these run out, the only thing I can think to do is to donate my collection to a museum where they can look after it, otherwise it will soon be detroyed.

The only other thing that will kill dermestids is freezing, but this is very time consuming and it's just not feasible to freeze hundreds of drawers on a regular basis.

martellat0 wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2024 10:40 pm Has anyone had experience with paradichlorobenzene (PDB) before? Upon consideration, it's probably the only other option that is readily available to me, as it happens to be the main constituent of a local bathroom air freshener. I'm open to other suggestions, but acquiring specialized supplies is difficult in the Philippines (at least, without incurring hefty shipping costs and waiting months for a package to arrive).

Are 'no-pest strips' available in The Philippines? These are a US product (so may be available there) containing Vapona, which has dichlorvos as its active ingredient. This is also quite dangerous, but if you open the plastic case for the product (wear rubber gloves and never allow it to contact your skin!!!) and use strong scissors or garden pruners to cut the strip into about 1cm squares you can put one square in each specimen box. It will kill pests and prevent infestation for several years.

Note: NEVER, EVER touch it with your fingers!

Adam.

bobw wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:43 am The only other thing that will kill dermestids is freezing, but this is very time consuming and it's just not feasible to freeze hundreds of drawers on a regular basis.

Some of us are unfortunate enough that freezing an entire collection four or ten drawers at a time is easily accomplished by placing them in the garage.

My collection hasn't always been well air conditioned. Even now, with aircon I struggle to keep summer humidity below 50%. That 50% seems to be the magical number below which Dermestids won't appear.

But at times the collection was stored above 80% humidity for months. Dermestids were a problem, but I never did have problems with specimens relaxing/ droopy wings.


martellat0 IF you can get your collection into an air conditioned area that would be better for it.

Chuck wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:43 am

bobw wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:43 am The only other thing that will kill dermestids is freezing, but this is very time consuming and it's just not feasible to freeze hundreds of drawers on a regular basis.

Some of us are unfortunate enough that freezing an entire collection four or ten drawers at a time is easily accomplished by placing them in the garage.

I assume you mean "fortunate" rather than "unfortunate". I don't have a freezer big enough to take one drawer, let alone more, so freezing is impractical for me.