Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

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MonaLisa
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Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

Post by MonaLisa »

Hi everyone! I have truly tried everything to rid myself of clothes moths, specifically Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella. And when I say everything, I mean everything. Tune in if you have expertise in this field and / or to read about my escapade and adventures in the name of banishing clothes moths from my life. It's a page turner...

An entomologist saw my moth trap in September 2023 and confirmed I have both Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella.

To give you the quickest overview possible I’ve truly tried everything to get rid of them.

Here’s some high-level background:
    From October 2022 until September 2023, I lived in a house that had a bad moth infestation.
      In September 2023, I got rid of literally every single thing that I owned, and kept only two passports, a laptop, and a cell phone, in the hope of getting rid of the moths once and for all. I was moving to the east coast and decided it was worth the sacrifice of stuff (which I didn't have that much of) if I could be moth-free.
        Unfortunately, no luck. I got rid of my possessions and over a seven week period, I lived in three different hotels, where I changed rooms every three days. During this time I also bought entirely new clothes every three days (I mean every item — from shoes, to bag to underwear, jacket and socks) and discarded the previous set.After this period, I thought I was in the clear. But after two weeks of living a normal life (staying in one place and keeping the same set of clothes) holes appeared after about seven days.
          In the following experiment which lasted two months I introduced the following: I also treated my hair with anti-lice shampoo that contained pyrethrins and sprayed each set of clothes with a 0.5% Permethrin spray.

          Here’s a deeper dive on almost everything I’ve tried to get rid of the moths over the past year and a half:
            The day before I flew to NYC, I bought brand new clothes, bags, shoes (everything) before my flight. I moved into a sublet that was definitely moth-free. But a couple of days later I found holes in my brand new items.
              I then went traveling in North America. I moved hotel rooms every three days and bought a new outfit every time I moved to a new room and discarded the previous outfit. After seven weeks of doing this — I still found holes.At this point, nothing made sense.
                To recap: I was changing my entire wardrobe every three days and I was staying in moth-free apartments or hotel rooms that I was moving out of every three days. I know moths aren’t meant to dwell on hair or skin, but I suspected that they must be living somewhere in my body.
                  So I embarked on a new two month experiment. I added permethrins to the mix. For the next two months, I used anti-lice shampoo in my hair, smeared 5% permethrin cream on my body, and regularly blow dried my hair, knowing the high heat kills eggs  — just in case.
                    I was also still moving hotel rooms and changing my wardrobe every three days. And, I’d also read that bed bugs can find a home in electronics. There’s no evidence to suggest that’s the case with my moths, but I wanted to be as careful as possible, so I left my laptop at work during this entire period of three months. I also got Bell Environmental to apply their InstantFreeze, usually used to kill bedbugs hiding in electronics, to my laptop.
                      By this point, I thought I must be moth-free, so I let down my guard. However, again after two weeks of not swapping out my clothes and accommodation every three days, I found seven moth holes in a shirt and bag. I was in high-end hotels at the time and I am confident that they were moth-free. So at this point, I’m at a loss. It’s been more than a year and a half, I’ve invested thousands of dollars in trying to get rid of the moths, as well as countless hours of research… and nothing has worked.

                      What I’d like to try now:
                        Is there a machine with a magnifying glass powerful enough to scan my laptop, passports — the three things I can’t get rid of — to see if that’s where the moth eggs are living? And/or a machine to scan my hair and skin for moth eggs? Essentially, I would like to know for sure, where the moth eggs are being carried.
                          Any other ideas?Everything I’ve experienced has gone against received wisdom around moths. For example, they've eaten synthetics, holes have in some cases appeared within 48 hours of me wearing a brand new cotton item. 

                          If anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. And I’d also really appreciate any resources or research you could send my way that might help point me in the right direction.

                          Many thanks!
                          Chuck
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                          Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                          Post by Chuck »

                          MonaLisa wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:11 am
                            Any other ideas?Everything I’ve experienced has gone against received wisdom around moths. For example, they've eaten synthetics, holes have in some cases appeared within 48 hours of me wearing a brand new cotton item. 
                            Is this AI?

                            Are you from California or Oregon?

                            Do you smoke or weld?
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                            kevinkk
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by kevinkk »

                            Try some better synthetic clothing. My first impression is that there is something other than an insect at work. Your efforts at abatement seem
                            quite extensive, and I am having trouble envisioning the moth conspiracy which is plaguing you.
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by Chuck »

                            It's either AI, or it's Voodoo.
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by adamcotton »

                            I found this post strange, but I'm not sure it's AI ... wouldn't AI know that species names are spelt with a first small letter, and only genus names with a capital?

                            Adam.
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by kevinkk »

                            Chuck wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:35 am re you from California or Oregon?
                            ??
                            So, I have as plausible a cause as any. This person has corrosive sweat. Think about it.
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by Chuck »

                            adamcotton wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:34 pm I found this post strange, but I'm not sure it's AI ... wouldn't AI know that species names are spelt with a first small letter, and only genus names with a capital?

                            Adam.
                            AI is available in various packages (programs) and each have owner-adjustable settings for correctness, tone, writing level, and humor. In general though, all of the commercially available (eg ChatGPT) mine the internet for info, but don't go deeper into publications, etc. So if the answer/ info isn't commonly available (e.g. on Wikipedia) or "conventional wisdom" the answer will be wrong.

                            Further, there's adjustable settings for things like "make stuff up"; a NASA AI engineer told me that's intentional because the AI chat is trying to get human users to correct it, and then it stores that information.

                            What AI is fascinatingly adept at is generating well written content that emulates English; at the asking this can be adjusted for competence (e.g., school grade level, and US vs UK vocabulary usage.)

                            Typically, the give-away on AI-generated content is a mix of in-depth knowledge with perplexing stupidity. That's what we have here- names of species, chemicals, etc. but a total lack of common sense. AI itself, asked to write a simple story, won't come up with this content- somebody asked it to write an absolutely outrageous story, which is what was posted. Problem is, AI doesn't know enough to not employ species names and chemical details. So the hand is tipped.

                            There are other give-aways: west coast and NYC, which are well known and the home of most AI programmers/ owners. If it had picked, for example, the source location to be Coeur D'Alene Idaho the story would fall apart because virtually everyone from that area (1) has the common sense to know this is impossible, and (2) doesn't have the money to throw clothing away every three days. Though the fact that it did not pick Coeur D'Alene isn't to make the story more believable; again, it picked or was told "west coast."

                            The spelling, grammar, and punctuation I've not experimented with. Usually, AI will generate these to perfection, so I'm unsure if a user can tell Chat to intentionally screw up, or if these were later hand-edited. "0.5% Permethrin" and later "permathrins" is not, AFAIK, AI (yet.) This then indicates to me that the content was generated (by AI upon request) not by a bot to mine data, but by a human with some other motive.

                            Another clue to AI generation is the tone. It tries to make it believable, which is actually VERY difficult. Remember the US newspapers' "Dear Abby" column, in which dingbat writers would ask for advice about challenges that pretty much everyone knew how to handle? One particular college (forgot which one) was adept at getting spoof questions published- but IIRC under 20 of these made it through in a period spanning decades. AI on the other hand is effectively a master of manipulation; in many ways it can out-think the humans appointed to screen it. This is scary, because AI is just a baby.

                            In some cases, and we will see here, AI will return to "defend" itself with well written excuses and more story. This though, right now, is rare. Besides which, as I said while this is AI generated, there's a human involved. This in itself is somewhat of a blessing, as is the fact that the whole thing is a spoof, because if this were truly human-generated based on a perceived series of events we have to keep in mind that this person drives and votes.

                            You can expect AI to be mature enough within five years that it will generate content on detailed subjects for which humans will not be able to ascertain who/ what wrote it. Like any tool, it will be used for entertainment, politics, and crime, what a shame.
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by Jshuey »

                            Well, if this is all the smarter that AI is at the moment, I'm not too worried about the future of humanity.

                            j
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by Paul K »

                            I suppose if it wouldn’t be AI there be already response to all the comments have been posted if a person is expecting some answers.
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by Chuck »

                            Jshuey wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:53 pm Well, if this is all the smarter that AI is at the moment, I'm not too worried about the future of humanity.

                            j
                            There are many with that consensus, and I believe it dangerous.

                            Human technology went from biplanes to jets in six years. AI will mature far faster.

                            It's already used quite often for unethical, biased purposes. It's suggested people commit suicide, it's ridiculed (bullied) people, etc. It has suggested the elimination of the human species. It does not, unfortunately, have the "robot will not harm humans" programming. It's now being not just politically weaponized, but militarily weaponized. "The Terminator" truly is the destination, and not far off.

                            Aside from that dire prediction, as we see here it wastes time. It hides elements of research while promoting others. It knowingly provides incorrect information. This is not good if AI is used for research. Bots then splatter it all over forums and such. When AI can publish on its own, who knows which publications will be reliable, and which aren't.

                            Though throttling AI development has been discussed, it's out of the bag and control will, inevitably, be minimal. Just like Skype killed the long distance phone company, and online publishing killed the newspaper.
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by kevinkk »

                            All these conclusions may be accurate. Other than childish amusement, I am missing the point of the original post.
                            Even without being an expert on clothes moths, I found the premise to be virtually impossible, this is what often happens when people,
                            or robots, step out of their field of expertise and rub elbows with the experienced.
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                            Re: Clothes moths infestation — Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella

                            Post by Chuck »

                            kevinkk wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 3:47 pm I am missing the point of the original post.
                            ..., step out of their field of expertise and rub elbows with the experienced.
                            The motive isn't to get an answer. There are a myriad of reasons bots and scams post inaccurate stuff:
                            1. to identify the gullible, and identify those to avoid. This may be at the individual level, or forum level
                            2. to gain posts in order to appear trustworthy when it comes time to defraud
                            3. to see how easy it is the register & post/ get past any gate keepers (for future use)
                            4. to establish sleeper accounts that will be used sometimes years later
                            5. to find sites/ accounts that have PM-to-email and/ or file storage to use for illicit and harder-to-track crime.

                            Basically for crime of some sort.

                            When I see a bot/ potential fraud, the first thing I do is search for some copy/paste phrase. Sometimes you'll find the same thing all over the internet (hint: that's a dead give-away). This one though was tailored for this forum; note that "clothes moths", Permathrin, "west coast", and "NYC" have all come up sometimes regularly here. Scientific names appear daily on here. Throw in some scientific names available in seconds, and it's obvious it was tailored for us.

                            Why were we targeted? Probably fraud. If someone had taken it seriously and posted a serious response that's a flag of gullibility. Then see how long you can go back-and-forth with the gullible to see how gullible they are. Then watch them for a year. Then six months later hit them with a PM offering something for money, or even get them to click a link that infects their computer. Bingo.
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