Rarities in Charaxes

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Annarobertson1947
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Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Annarobertson1947 »

Im knowing Lydiae, fournierae, acraeoides are considered rarities, whats the consensus here of any other difficult to get species
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livingplanet3
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by livingplanet3 »

Annarobertson1947 wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:07 am Im knowing Lydiae, fournierae, acraeoides are considered rarities, whats the consensus here of any other difficult to get species
I have a specimen of C. doubledayi that I consider myself rather fortunate to have obtained, several years ago. Certainly, it doesn't seem to be available very often as compared to many other Charaxes.

Cabintom posted some excellent photos of the species, here -

https://collector-secret.proboards.com/ ... doubledayi
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by livingplanet3 »

Charaxes (subgenus Polyura) dehanii is another nice species that I only rather recently acquired. As is the case with many Charaxes, the verso is even more strikingly patterned than the recto -

Image

C. (Polyura) clitarchus (endemic to New Caledonia) is another one that I'd hoped to eventually obtain as well, but it seems unlikely -

Image
Annarobertson1947
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Annarobertson1947 »

livingplanet3 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:39 pm Charaxes (subgenus Polyura) dehanii is another nice species that I only rather recently acquired. As is the case with many Charaxes, the verso is even more strikingly patterned than the recto -

Image

C. (Polyura) clitarchus (endemic to New Caledonia) is another one that I'd hoped to eventually obtain as well, but it seems unlikely -

Image
Beautiful species, and not cheap😟
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Annarobertson1947 »

Are they breeding Polyura dehaani or all wild caught?
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by livingplanet3 »

Annarobertson1947 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:38 am Are they breeding Polyura dehaani or all wild caught?
It seems that some years ago, someone must have captive-reared a number of dehanii - my pair seems far too perfect to have ever flown.
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by daveuk »

I can't get used to Polyura as Charaxes. Getting old..
Here is a new photo of my male Polyura clitarchus upper & underside & an upperside male Polyura dehanii sultan from Sumatra.
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Chuck »

Dave, you go ahead and call it Polyura, I do.

And remain steadfast in the use of genus Amphion and place names like Stanleyville, New Hebrides, and Sears Point. I will not surrender.
Last edited by Chuck on Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by daveuk »

livingplanet3 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:01 am
Annarobertson1947 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:38 am Are they breeding Polyura dehaani or all wild caught?
It seems that some years ago, someone must have captive-reared a number of dehanii - my pair seems far too perfect to have ever flown.
Agree with that livingplanet. I think that it has not been bred for a while now as I rarely see them offered these days. Here are my nominate pair from Java. Have a couple more males also.
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by livingplanet3 »

daveuk wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:11 pm I can't get used to Polyura as Charaxes. Getting old..
Here is a new photo of my male Polyura clitarchus upper & underside & an upperside male Polyura dehanii sultan from Sumatra...
Very nice! :D
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by livingplanet3 »

daveuk wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:27 pm
livingplanet3 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:01 am
Annarobertson1947 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:38 am Are they breeding Polyura dehaani or all wild caught?
It seems that some years ago, someone must have captive-reared a number of dehanii - my pair seems far too perfect to have ever flown.
Agree with that livingplanet. I think that it has not been bred for a while now as I rarely see them offered these days. Here are my nominate pair from Java. Have a couple more males also.
Beautiful specimens! :D
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Annarobertson1947 »

Yes exquisite specimens. Congratulations.
I am aware of nominate and sulthan as ssp being Java and Sumatra.
But i see also a ssp carabus from Sumatra ????
Any info on this ???
Last edited by Annarobertson1947 on Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Annarobertson1947 »

daveuk wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:11 pm I can't get used to Polyura as Charaxes. Getting old..
Here is a new photo of my male Polyura clitarchus upper & underside & an upperside male Polyura dehanii sultan from Sumatra.
Dave,beautiful specimens .
In Charaxinae, genus Polyura.
I believe that Thierrry Bouyer sorted that problem in 2023 by confirming Polyura as a genus.
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by adamcotton »

Annarobertson1947 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:19 pm I believe that Thierrry Bouyer sorted that problem in 2023 by confirming Polyura as a genus.
Yes, but what he did was split Charaxes (s.l.) into several different genera, thus also conserving Polyura as a genus. As a result many African species have changed genera, for example C. lydiae became Ydeali lydiae.

The paper is Bouyer., T. 2023. The genera of the tribe Charaxini (Papilionoidea, Nymphalidae, Charaxinae). Metamorphosis, 34: 59–78.
Abstract:
The systematics of Charaxini is revised. The three historical genera are confirmed: Charaxes (Ochsenheimer, 1816); Polyura (Billberg, 1820) and Euxanthe (Hübner, 1819). The genera Eriboea (Hübner, 1819) status rev.; Zingha (Hemming, 1939) status rev.; Viridixes (Bouyer & Vingerhoedt, 2008) status rev. and Euxanthe subgenus Hypomelaena (Aurivillius, 1898) status. rev. are reinstated. Three new genera are described: Laodice genus nov. with the type species Papilio lycurgus (Fabricius, 1793); Setechin genus nov. with the type species Charaxes nichetes (Grose-Smith, 1883) and Ydeali genus nov. with the type species Charaxes lydiae (Holland, 1917). A key to the nine genera is provided.

The paper is available online.

Adam.
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by daveuk »

Annarobertson1947 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:06 pm Yes exquisite specimens. Congratulations.
I am aware of nominate and sulthan as ssp being Java and Sumatra.
But i see also a ssp carabus from Sumatra ????
Any info on this ???
Have not heard of ssp. carabus Anna. Thanks for the information about nominate ssp. being found in Sumatra. Was also unaware of this.
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by livingplanet3 »

Another beautiful, rare Charaxes - C. mafuga from Uganda. The females, especially, can have quite variable coloration. In darker females like the one below, the blue sheen is really only apparent with the right lighting and angle. Photo from web - not a species in my own collection, unfortunately! -

Image
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Annarobertson1947 »

daveuk wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:29 am
Annarobertson1947 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:06 pm Yes exquisite specimens. Congratulations.
I am aware of nominate and sulthan as ssp being Java and Sumatra.
But i see also a ssp carabus from Sumatra ????
Any info on this ???
Have not heard of ssp. carabus Anna. Thanks for the information about nominate ssp. being found in Sumatra. Was also unaware of this.
Sorry, you have misunderstood me, i said nominate and sulthan being Java and Sumatra, this reads as,,,,nominate Java and sulthan Sumatra
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Annarobertson1947 »

adamcotton wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:29 am
Annarobertson1947 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:19 pm I believe that Thierrry Bouyer sorted that problem in 2023 by confirming Polyura as a genus.
Yes, but what he did was split Charaxes (s.l.) into several different genera, thus also conserving Polyura as a genus. As a result many African species have changed genera, for example C. lydiae became Ydeali lydiae.

The paper is Bouyer., T. 2023. The genera of the tribe Charaxini (Papilionoidea, Nymphalidae, Charaxinae). Metamorphosis, 34: 59–78.
Abstract:
The systematics of Charaxini is revised. The three historical genera are confirmed: Charaxes (Ochsenheimer, 1816); Polyura (Billberg, 1820) and Euxanthe (Hübner, 1819). The genera Eriboea (Hübner, 1819) status rev.; Zingha (Hemming, 1939) status rev.; Viridixes (Bouyer & Vingerhoedt, 2008) status rev. and Euxanthe subgenus Hypomelaena (Aurivillius, 1898) status. rev. are reinstated. Three new genera are described: Laodice genus nov. with the type species Papilio lycurgus (Fabricius, 1793); Setechin genus nov. with the type species Charaxes nichetes (Grose-Smith, 1883) and Ydeali genus nov. with the type species Charaxes lydiae (Holland, 1917). A key to the nine genera is provided.

The paper is available online.

Adam.
yes Adam ,i have this
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by Annarobertson1947 »

Adam, I'm asking if you know of a Polyura dehaani ssp carabus from Mt Dempo in Sumatra, or is this just a dealers name for ssp sulthan ???
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

Post by daveuk »

Annarobertson1947 wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:14 pm
daveuk wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:29 am
Annarobertson1947 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:06 pm Yes exquisite specimens. Congratulations.
I am aware of nominate and sulthan as ssp being Java and Sumatra.
But i see also a ssp carabus from Sumatra ????
Any info on this ???
Have not heard of ssp. carabus Anna. Thanks for the information about nominate ssp. being found in Sumatra. Was also unaware of this.
Sorry, you have misunderstood me, i said nominate and sulthan being Java and Sumatra, this reads as,,,,nominate Java and sulthan Sumatra
Apologies. My bad !!
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