Below - some nice photos I came across of Trogonoptera brookiana. This species, along with T. trojana, must surely be among the most distinctive looking and magnificent butterflies in the world -
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:57 pm
by Trehopr1
Hello livingplanet3,
Those are some superb photographs that you have there. They really convey the marvelous and distinctive beauty of this particular butterfly species. It's still remains amongst MY top 20 favorite butterfly species....
It was my first opportunity to acquire a "birdwing" butterfly for a "budding" lepidopterist. In fact, it would be one of the first EXOTIC butterflies that I would acquire via the (original) Butterfly Company out of New York. I was 13 or 14 at the time. Was absolutely mesmerized at the beauty of the creature upon opening those glorious wings upon relaxing !
Thank you for "rekindling" the fond memories that I have of this marvelous and STILL breathtaking species.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:41 pm
by boghaunter1
Many good videos on YouTube... certainly on my bucket list!.. a truly exquisite butterfly!
John K.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:44 pm
by 58chevy
Agreed. Great species.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:15 pm
by Chuck
If the genetics guys are right, Trogonoptera split off from all other Ornithoptera & Troides some 25 million years ago. Troides & Ornithoptera split some 8 million years later. So in those 25 million years, can you imagine what it looked like in order to get where it is today?
I still have my first specimen I bought for US$ 0.75. I can still remember it on the seller's table, papered, fifty years ago.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:23 pm
by Paul K
I was about 15 when my father bought me a framed specimen of T.brookiana back in old days in Poland.
This was the most beautiful butterfly I ever saw.
I still have this specimen after almost 40 years.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:00 pm
by bobw
I've only found time to watch the second, shorter video so far. Love the blue streaks on the underside! They do seem to keep themselves in remarkably good condition. In the second video, I only noticed one that had any damage at all. Shame there weren't any females.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:17 pm
by adamcotton
bobw wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:00 pm
Shame there weren't any females.
Female Papilionidae don't sand/mud-puddle, and definitely not with males. I once saw a freshly emerged Atrophaneura astorion female (also in tribe Troidini) in Laos drinking at the edge of a stream very early in the morning, but well away from the urine bait I put down the day before. I assume she needed pure water, unlike males which require salts.
Adam.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:29 pm
by adamcotton
I suspect this was filmed at the hot springs 7 miles up the Cameron Highlands road from Tapah, Perak, W Malaysia. Males gather there in large numbers. I vaguely remember going there in 1979.
Adam
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:02 am
by Paul K
Adam
Is T.brookiana still can be found in some south regions of Peninsular Thailand and if so do you know exact location.
Is T.brookiana still can be found in some south regions of Peninsular Thailand and if so do you know exact location.
No, it has never reliably been found in the far south of Thailand. There are a few specimens with labels stating 'Yala' (the southernmost province) in Europe, according to Haugum & Low's monograph but despite many people looking for it, including a friend of Inayoshi-san who lives there, no-one has ever seen it.
I should also add that the story of T. brookiana occurring in southern Burma near Moulmein is also absolutely untrue. Greg Watson sat in Singapore in 1975 and paid some people to go there across the Thai border (actually absolutely impossible at that time due to the tribal war there) to collect butterflies. Of course all they did was go to Cameron Highlands and then back to Singapore. Greg Watson believed them, and told Jan Haugum who put the information in his book. Also it does not occur in Langkawi Is. or the Andaman provinces of Malaysia and Thailand, so it is highly unlikely to be in southern Burma, nor is it in the high mountains (Khao Luang) in Nakorn Srithammarat, which is basically the northern extension of the Malay mountain range. If it was in Burma it would have been found during British colonial days, as the Burmese peninsula was widely collected then.
Adam.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:47 pm
by Chuck
bobw wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:00 pm
I've only found time to watch the second, shorter video so far. Love the blue streaks on the underside! They do seem to keep themselves in remarkably good condition. In the second video, I only noticed one that had any damage at all. Shame there weren't any females.
adamcotton wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:17 pm
Female Papilionidae don't sand/mud-puddle, and definitely not with males.
We touched on this in another thread: puddling Papilio males that are almost always in excellent condition, inferring they are recently emerged, which itself infers that they need the salts only after emergence and not after.
Is T.brookiana still can be found in some south regions of Peninsular Thailand and if so do you know exact location.
No, it has never reliably been found in the far south of Thailand. There are a few specimens with labels stating 'Yala' (the southernmost province) in Europe, according to Haugum & Low's monograph but despite many people looking for it, including a friend of Inayoshi-san who lives there, no-one has ever seen it.
I should also add that the story of T. brookiana occurring in southern Burma near Moulmein is also absolutely untrue. Greg Watson sat in Singapore in 1975 and paid some people to go there across the Thai border (actually absolutely impossible at that time due to the tribal war there) to collect butterflies. Of course all they did was go to Cameron Highlands and then back to Singapore. Greg Watson believed them, and told Jan Haugum who put the information in his book. Also it does not occur in Langkawi Is. or the Andaman provinces of Malaysia and Thailand, so it is highly unlikely to be in southern Burma, nor is it in the high mountains (Khao Luang) in Nakorn Srithammarat, which is basically the northern extension of the Malay mountain range. If it was in Burma it would have been found during British colonial days, as the Burmese peninsula was widely collected then.
Adam.
Thank you Adam
That is interesting as Cameron Highlands is only about 100km south of Yala without any barrier. I wonder what is it that restrict the species to move northwards .
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:27 pm
by adamcotton
Paul K wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:54 pm
That is interesting as Cameron Highlands is only about 100km south of Yala without any barrier. I wonder what is it that restrict the species to move northwards .
I suspect it may either be an environmental issue or perhaps the food plant does not occur further north. Inayoshi-san asked me earlier if I know of any records in northern W Malaysia, but without careful checking I really can't remember any.
Adam.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:51 pm
by Chuck
FWIW, iNaturalist shows the species only near the end of the peninsula and the west coast. North, it's only observed (in iNat) just north of Penang.
Of course, it's on the islands too. On Sumatra, oddly there are no observations on the east/NE coast- not Medan, not Tingii, not Pekanbaru. Though those areas are ecologically destroyed.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:32 pm
by adamcotton
Chuck wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:51 pm
North, it's only observed (in iNat) just north of Penang.
Actually, the northernmost record in iNat is on Penang Island, not north of it. I have a paper recording it from Terengganu on the east side of the Malay Peninsula, but I guess less iNat contributors go over there.
Adam.
Re: Trogonoptera brookiana
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:47 pm
by livingplanet3
Trehopr1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:57 pm
Hello livingplanet3,
Those are some superb photographs that you have there. They really convey the marvelous and distinctive beauty of this particular butterfly species. It's still remains amongst MY top 20 favorite butterfly species....
It was my first opportunity to acquire a "birdwing" butterfly for a "budding" lepidopterist. In fact, it would be one of the first EXOTIC butterflies that I would acquire via the (original) Butterfly Company out of New York. I was 13 or 14 at the time. Was absolutely mesmerized at the beauty of the creature upon opening those glorious wings upon relaxing !
Thank you for "rekindling" the fond memories that I have of this marvelous and STILL breathtaking species.
Almost certainly, this was the first birdwing species that I ever obtained as well, and like you, I also got my first brookiana specimen from the now long defunct, original Butterfly Company. I can well recall how amazed I was at the uniqueness of the pattern on the forewings, and the brilliant green iridescence. I still have that specimen, to this day.
Thanks to all for your comments in this thread. I will plan to make more posts about favorite and/or unusual species over the coming year; perhaps some of them will become conversation starters in the way that this one has.
