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A few hesperiidae that i'm trying id. Any help is appriciated!
1: ?? 2: Probably same as 1? 3: Calpodes sp? Possible to be more specific?

4: Calpodes sp? Possible to be more specific? 5: Aguna coelus? 6: Telegonus cretatus?

7: Spicauda simplicius?

1 and 2 Unknowns - these are a mystery. These are large bugs - right? Almost as large as the Calpodes? The pattering is odd. On the FW, you have a broad dash in Evans' space 1b, AND a long dash confined to the lower portion of the cell. This is almost the same as you see in female Damas clavus (but the apical spots aligned differently). The ventral HWs are very different. Also note that the wing shapes, antenna structure and palps look pretty similar. I think we are in the ball park.

Perhaps you have females of Damas horridus (love this name!). I've never seen females - but the males I have are really blacker - no hint of orange like your photos. Plus I've only seen this one from much further west in the Peruvian lowlands, where it is fairly common.

If I have time once I get home tonight, I'll plow through my dead bugs and see if anything jumps out at me that I can't picture at the moment.

3 and 4 Calopodes - most likely Calpodes salius - male and female - this is an incredibly variable species.

5: Aguna coelus? - most likely

6: Telegonus cretatus? - definately

7: Spicauda simplicius? - assuming it has a FW costal fold - yes

John

Thank you John! You are right, nr 1 and 2 are the same size as the Calpodes. It looks like Damas clavus it the closest bet so far for sure. I have a few more hesperiidae that im currently trying to figure out. I will probably post them aswell after having a look myself first.

A few more.
8: ?? 9: ?? 10: ??

11: Spicauda tanna? 12: Telegonus fulminator or fulgerator? 13: Calpodes ethlius?

1 and 2 - I looked through the relevant dead bugs I have - and nothing jumped out. I doubt that they have anything to do with Damas. All my female Damas clavus have a "purple sheen" on the ventral HWs, and the Damas horridus males I have are so black, I just can't imagine a female would look like this.

8, 9 and 10 - I would start with a dissection of the males (8 and 9). I have about 4 entire drawers of bugs that look like these still waiting on dissection... Little brown bugs from the Neotropics scan be tuff! Sometimes, you can pitcture ID bugs like #8 based on the arrangement of FW hyaline spots (which are pretty unusual on this bug). #9 looks a little like a Corticea species - but I don't think it is. and #10 is a female.

11: Spicauda tanna? is probably S. teleus. This has 4 apical spots (versus 5 for tanna). Note the Grishin recently elevated 2 additional South American names based on genetics of their types - zalanthus and ambiguous - and I'm not too sure how to reliably tell these from teleus and the BoA website only figures those type specimens.

12: Telegonus fulminator or fulgerator? - Who he heck knows... . this is a crazy cryptic species complex. I'd go with fulgerator right now - realizing that this phenotype is probably multiple species that are not yet named...

13: Calpodes ethlius? - yep! Finally a simple species ID!

John

Thanks again John. Yes those small dark/black ones are indeed hard!
I had a look on nr 1 and 2, and nr 1(which is the best quality specimen) does have a weak purpleish sheen on the upper 2/3 of the ventral hindwings.

This is very interesting, though outside of my scope.

If you can Stump The Shuey, you've done well. Good luck.

Chuck wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:00 pm This is very interesting, though outside of my scope.

If you can Stump The Shuey, you've done well. Good luck.

It's not really that hard to stump me... All you have to do is take a look at my personal collection and see the drawers of random, little brown guys that I have yet to place into a proper genus yet.

Back to photos 1 and 2 - I just sent Nick Grishin a copy to see what he thinks. They are either strange Damas clavus, or really uncommon (perhaps undescribed). He's the guy that is almost impossible to stump.

John

Hello John,
Was wondering if you collect skippers from here in the US ? Do you have much in the way of "holdings" from here in the US or have you specialized more on exotic skippers ?

A friend of mine happens to be one of the co-authors of "a Field guide to the skippers of Illinois" which was produced through the Illinois natural History survey in 2006. He has since added an additional page of amendments to the guide where things have changed.

He has traveled extensively throughout the state in search of as many skipper species as he could find. As such, he acquired species that the survey did not have so, it was his personal collection from which the greatest number of photographs are taken.

#1 and 2 - Definitely a Damas species so says Nick Grishin. Probably no name associated with it.

Trehopr1 wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:41 pm Hello John,
Was wondering if you collect skippers from here in the US ? Do you have much in the way of "holdings" from here in the US or have you specialized more on exotic skippers ?

A friend of mine happens to be one of the co-authors of "a Field guide to the skippers of Illinois" which was produced through the Illinois natural History survey in 2006. He has since added an additional page of amendments to the guide where things have changed.

He has traveled extensively throughout the state in search of as many skipper species as he could find. As such, he acquired species that the survey did not have so, it was his personal collection from which the greatest number of photographs are taken.

I have that book somewhere! And yes, I have decent eastern NA skippers, but I haven't really swung a net in the country is about 20 years. I grew up in Ohio, moved to northern Michigan, and now am in Indiana. And I traveled a lot for my jobs, and collected when I could. But once I really got an opportunity to focus on the tropics - and I'm really only interested in the western tropics,- I decided to focus exclusively there. When I'm in the field, I collect everything, but when it comes time to trade - I'm only looking for skippers anymore. Life used to be great - trading Parides and Preponas for little brown skippers, but lately it seems like I've tapped out the market.

John

Jshuey wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:12 pm #1 and 2 - Definitely a Damas species so says Nick Grishin. Probably no name associated with it.

Thanks again

So John, if he apparently has unidentifiable, possibly new species, what's next?

You'd mentioned genitalia dissection.

If he described them as new species, then at least the world sees them and it's open to argument; if they sit in a drawer with a few photos only here, what good is it?

Trehopr1 wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:41 pm Hello John,
Was wondering if you collect skippers from here in the US ? Do you have much in the way of "holdings" from here in the US or have you specialized more on exotic skippers ?

A friend of mine happens to be one of the co-authors of "a Field guide to the skippers of Illinois" which was produced through the Illinois natural History survey in 2006. He has since added an additional page of amendments to the guide where things have changed.

He has traveled extensively throughout the state in search of as many skipper species as he could find. As such, he acquired species that the survey did not have so, it was his personal collection from which the greatest number of photographs are taken.

Say hi to Jim for me!

Chuck wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2023 1:06 pm So John, if he apparently has unidentifiable, possibly new species, what's next?

You'd mentioned genitalia dissection.

If he described them as new species, then at least the world sees them and it's open to argument; if they sit in a drawer with a few photos only here, what good is it?

Well, first step would be to see what other names may already be available. A lot of "new" skippers were described long ago, and then synonymized. Once that potential is evaluated and it was clear that it indeed new, then - If I had the bugs - I'd do a traditional morphological description. That would include first, taking really good photos of the bugs, and then dissecting them. Then a well illustrated, but straight forward description. These can be a simple or complex as you desire - I usually go middle of the road (see here for a recent one (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo ... cuador.pdf).

JOhn

And for French Guyana material, I would double-check with Paris MNHN, as they have tons of material from there.

Check also "Papillons de Guyane" website : http://papillons-de-guyane.fr/papillons ... =19&alt=19
Tons of Hesperiidae there.