InsectNet forum

I'm wondering if Papilio / some Papilio taxon ground feed only immediately upon emergence.

Presumption: a perfect/ near-perfect Papilio has recently emerged; within days they are bird-bit, worn, faded, etc.

My observations:

I've caught two Papilio canadensis in NY: Finger Lakes (years apart), both ground feeding, both perfect.

A couple years ago, I saw two "Spring Form" Papilio glaucus in NY: Finger Lakes ground feeding at a creek; both appeared to be perfect, certainly the once I caught was.

Last year in PA along the Susquehanna River I caught four Papilio glaucus puddling; three perfect, one perfect except missing a big chunk of HW.

Last week in KY I caught several Papilio glaucus that were ground feeding; all were perfect.

Earlier this month I caught 18 Mid Summer Tiger Swallowtails in NY: Cortland County all ground feeding (puddling in groups) within 1km stretch of dirt road; all were perfect. I sent a nature photog there the next day, he saw zero- on the next day!!!

So...in my experience, with three Tiger Swallowtail taxa in three states, all ground feeding Tigers have been perfect, indicating they are recently (i.e., that day) eclosed. Thus, I propose that ground feeding Tigers (at least) are recently eclosed; further I propose that they only ground feed for a day or so after eclosure.

Any disagreement here? Observations to the contrary? Is anyone aware of publications discussing this?

I don’t have an answer, but it seems reasonable to posit that they puddle as soon as they can to load up on mineral salts, and once they have fuelled up, this could last them a long time (perhaps they only need to do this once?).

I suppose this is a normal behaviour.
The adults emerge and first search for minerals to successfully mate.
That’s why most of mud puddling butterflies are fresh.
I also noticed that while collecting in tropics.

I agree, most are very fresh although some mud-puddling Papilionidae are older worn specimens. Generally only males mud-puddle, but strangely females of some Pieridae puddle in large numbers as well (e.g. Appias albina, Catopsilia pomona).

I once found a freshly emerged female Atrophaneura varuna drinking water very early in the morning (but not at the urine bait I had put out nearby the day before). Presumably it needed a drink of plain water to start off before anything else. Needless to say it didn't get any further than that!

Adam.

eurytides wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 11:53 pm once they have fuelled up, this could last them a long time (perhaps they only need to do this once?).

That's what I'm inclined to think.

If this is the case, one would think it's been published long ago.

Also, looking back on the MST puddling one day and not the next, that would imply that the entire local population emerged on the same day.

On another note, it appears that different species are puddling for different chemicals; last week in KY the Papilio glaucus were on the dirt road, near puddles, while nearby hundreds of Phyciodes tharos were in a gravel parking lot.

I think in some species, the males need certain essential minerals before they become fully fertile. That's why some are difficult to pair up in captivity unless this can be replicated. In the wild, I guess they get this in the first day or two, so don't need to come to the ground again after that.

My experience with Papilio canadensis in Central Ontario is that when they are first out (late may/early June) the puddlers (all male) are all fresh. And for the next few days they are fresh. But 2 or 3 weeks later, there are still quite a few puddlers, but they are now more flight worn. I would agree that the highest number of puddlers come in the early days and I do notice lower numbers of puddlers as the days pass, but there are still quite a few worn puddlers, which would indicate that the need for the minerals is ongoing.

mothman55 wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:48 pm My experience with Papilio canadensis in Central Ontario is that when they are first out (late may/early June) the puddlers (all male) are all fresh. And for the next few days they are fresh. But 2 or 3 weeks later, there are still quite a few puddlers, but they are now more flight worn. I would agree that the highest number of puddlers come in the early days and I do notice lower numbers of puddlers as the days pass, but there are still quite a few worn puddlers, which would indicate that the need for the minerals is ongoing.

Good info, contradicts with my observations, which is important. Thanks.