These bulbs use a standard Mogul base socket (available in any hardware store) which is considerably larger than the standard household socket (E-24/E-27). Mogul based sockets are also surrounded/made of ceramics (not plastic!) to withstand greater heat buildup of this high wattage bulb. Mogul sockets are used with most M.V./M.H. bulbs from 175 to 1,500 watts. Very handy bulb, indeed, as you don't need to lug around a heavy, separate ballast as you do with regular Hg (Mercury) vapor bulbs. As an example the separate ballast for my 1,000 watt M.V. light trap weighs 23 lbs.
I have never heard of a 450 watt MV lamp by any N.A. manufacturer, though there are Metal halide lamps of this wattage. Nor have I ever heard of a lamp manufacturer named Astrodyne. I looked at that ad, and I see there is no manufacturer ID on the lamp itself, required by law. Though it states made in USA on a sticky note, I doubt there is any USA involvement, as there are specific rules concerning the manufacture and the identification of these lamps. Ad says it is self-ballasted; that means a good portion of that wattage is consumed by the internal ballast, so perhaps you actually have 200-250 watts MV lamp, the remaining consumed by the separate self-ballasted arc. Further, since you don't know the manufacturer you are unable to obtain a spectral distribution showing the specific wavelength output of this model. There are hundreds of MV lamps, each model emits a different spectral distribution. The various numbers in the ad description indicate shape of glass envelope and socket type, etc. The sticky tag on the bubble wrap is probably fake. No manufacturer does this, nor does any manufacturer ship their products with bubble wrap.
A 100 watt, 175 watt, 400 watt, 750 watt and 1000 watt mv lamp each emit a different spectral distribution picture, and likewise is different for each manufacturer. I have been fabricating and using daily entomological ballasted light traps for the past 55 years, and I use typically 175 watt, 400 watts and 1000 watts of MV lamps. I have even used (two) 1000 watt MV lamps combined with (5) 275 watt RS sunlamps and (8) 15 watt blacklights on a single trap. Eye protection is mandatory using any high intensity discharge lamps emitting UV rays. Never stare closely at these lamps, as they can and will burn (blister) your cornea. On the attached jpg illustrating a few of the light traps, d,g,and h use a 1000 watt MV lamp.
Chuck, you used the term standard moghul socket, note that standard is the designation for the screw in base/socket of the typical screw in lamps found in your home in the USA, but there is no designation 'standard mogul', just mogul. As for opting for a self-ballasted MV lamp versus a ballasted MV lampp, each has a different spectral distribution picture, consequently they will attract differently (species and volume quantities). I have attached a spectral distribution curve illustrating the differences between (15, 25 and 40 watt) fluorescent lamps identified as BL vs BLB.
Interestingly decades back, the government democrats passed another ignorant controlling law (one of millions by the democrats) restricting one's access to screwing in certain high intensity lamps into standard sockets, causing manufacturers to henceforth only manufacture certain models of lamps in mogul configuration. It was at this time that some manufacturers opted out of manufacturing these lamps permanently. But for $5.00 anyone can purchase adapters to get around this dumb-ass law.
Not sure you paid attention to the notice that these lamps are damaged, but that is not explained. I note also this question was asked by others and the response was 'crickets'.E-BAY IS ALWAYS A CRAP SHOOT, and the buyer usually looses. I also note there is no returns or refunds on this item.
To the Greatest Insect Collector the World has ever Known,
First of all Astrodyne does exist (in the U.S. & branches in China)... a quick Google search would tell you that. Just because YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD of a company or of a different wattage of bulb doesn't mean they don't exist! Nobody elected you the last & final word on everything to do with light trapping. It is readily apparent that you are just a loud, overbearing, nasty person... all your increasingly boring, repetitive, self promoting posts/replies (to almost any topic brought up here) PLUS your ever condescending/snide/belittling attitude to ANYONE who has a differing opinion than you are truly sad/pathetic. We are all supposed to be friends here... By the way what has a fuzzy old graph (hardly readable!) & yet even more photos (yet again!) of your 500 light trap configurations/brag fest have to do with this ad?....Please stop your shameless self promotion! It's getting very irritating!
I honestly don't know why you have such a problem with my little post.... what did I do wrong??? This was truly the 1st time in years I have seen an ad anywhere for "old stock" self ballasted M.V. bulbs (like BioQuip/Koehn sold & are no longer made) & I simply wanted others to know. You seem to give everyone else (including myself), on this website, very little or no credit for their own insect trapping experiences (47 yrs. for me). Your arrogance & obvious lack of respect for others is really disheartening. WE are all adults here with brains & can make up our own minds on this ad. To completely trash (with ZERO proof of your claims) my posting, & of the ad itself, & implying, by your words, that I was somehow naive/ignorant/just plain stupid & shouldn't have posted the thread in the 1st place is very hurtful/shameful.
And talk about petty nitpicking... I used the term standard Mogul socket...would you prefer "regular" "normal" "industry standard"... who the "H" cares??? Almost anyone (Chuck?) who has used M.V./M.H. bulbs to attract moths knows the larger wattages use MOGUL sockets! And using a 450W bulb adapter to a regular socket is not recommended... no regular household sockets are rated to handle a 450 W bulb for longer periods. If you replace your regular porch bulb with a Mogul adapter socket & then screw in the 450W M.V.... well I hope you have your fire insurance up to date! The temperature can reach 800 degrees PLUS F. inside the quartz tube where the arc occurs & 200 Degrees F. on the bulb's outer envelope. & yes I have done my own research over the last 47 years as well Mr. V. B..
Lastly I have had nothing previous to do, nor do I endorse this company; however... this company has 100% positive feedback (4,710 individual positive feedbacks), & has sold 19,000 items with no problems. And yes I was certainly aware of the fragility & risk of shipping these bulbs. The bulbs were not previously broken in that 1 feedback as the buyer said (the bulbs still worked!)... they were slightly damaged in transit. AS for the unproven personal opinion of V. B. that Ebay is a crapshoot for everyone.... please don't think you speak for everyone. I purchased 473 separate items/lots on Ebay since 2002 & have NEVER had a problem... even with fragile insect specimens, bulbs, fluorescent tubes, LED's, books, etc., etc.. Give me a break man! To all others do as you like with my posting... I'm not forcing anyone to spend big money for these bulbs... it's your own choice... we still live (luckily) in a mostly free society here in Canada & the U.S.A.... just take the blowhards with a grain of salt!
Time is better spent investigating and reporting than personal attacks.
Astrodyne makes RF and EMI filters. Perhaps they did rebrand MV bulbs for some contract; perhaps these were overstock, or flawed. Time might be better spent contacting Astrodyne to find out the story on these.
As far as generic reviews of Ebay and Amazon, it's beyond the scope of this forum. Suffice it to say that the last item I bought on Ebay was several years ago- the "Teva" sandals weren't even a knockoff, they were junk and my only recourses were to keep them or send them back to China. My wife makes a weekly run to Kohl's to return Amazon stuff that wasn't as described (did you know that? If an Amazon product was fulfilled by Amazon, you can take it to Kohl's to return, they will even repackage it if you tossed the box.) As far as Amazon and Ebay reviews, LOL, I take those to be of as much value as the rubbish in Consumer Reports.
Boghunter1 asks "what did I do wrong" and I say nothing- not in the initial post. You flagged a potential source; another member questioned the quality and value of it. Both are valuable.
Vernon's questioning of the product, as I read (and re-read) it does not attack the one who posted the link; Veron's second post likewise questions the product/ seller, and I'm glad he did- I didn't catch that these are damaged, unreturnable. The response though is a personal attack and most unfortunate. Time would have been better spent to further investigate the seller & product and report the findings.
I never attacked anyone. When I see foolishness, I was trying to call attention to those inaccuracies. None of what you accuse me of saying was said by me. This only exist in your mind, no where else. Not my problem you feel you made so many boo-boos. Not my problem you are unfamiliar with the lighting industry terminology. Your unwelcomed rant is out in left field and full of twisted inaccuracies. Astrodyne does not manufacture lamps in the USA, as I said; never said they don't exist. Your reading comprehension needs tweaking. I am aware they are a more recent China seller of other electrical components in the USA, but you speak of a lamp. I am sorry that you bought something of an unknown identity that you obviously now realize was probably not a wise move and are now embarrassed. But good luck, your oddball find may work out for you. Please let us know how they perform. Regardless, these lamps have no identifying manufacturer's name on the lamps themselves, which is how I know they weren't produced in North America.
Why is your opinion more relevant than my own? I began obtaining lighting manufacture literature from all of the USA manufacturers going back over 45 years ago, and I have thousands of $$ of technical publications/manuals on the manufacture and use of all types of lighting. I did have a specialized sideline business designing and fabricating entomological light traps specifically for collectors and researchers going back to the 1980s. So I do have somewhat of a learned technical background concentrated on UV and MV lighting (I do have two degrees, and worked in industry for about 20 years as a Quality Assurance Engineer). I enforced lighting regulations on several very large multi-million $$ constructions projects during my work history.
FYI, wattage is not a guide for what type of socket in your home setting, keeping in mind many of your kitchen counter devices can be 1200-1500 watts. But any mogul base lamps require a ceramic or similar high heat resistant sockets to screw them in, because those lamp designs produce high heat during operation. Since you bring up self-promotion, send me an e-mail and I'll send you a list of my 462 entomological publications and links where you can freely access nearly all of them, though most all of them have previously existed freely on the web for decades. You questioned my proofs, I can provide them. Stay calm, you may learn something in the end.
Not surprised... a typical, condescending response by someone who considers himself beyond question. Do you have any respect, at all, for anybody else's recommendations, opinions or collecting experience? Your only intention in your response is to make me look like an uneducated fool... & that Mr. Vernon Brou really sucks. You are 74 years old & have been collecting for 53 years & I am 62 years old & have been collecting for 47 years... two old collectors bashing heads over a tiny inconsequential posting! How Crazy! Simply dismissing my 4 decades plus collecting experience is deplorable & really callous & anything I wrote as "foolishness" blah, blah, blah is pure disrespect. Where a lamp was made (or labelled) means nothing to me... as long as it works & is still available for purchase in 2023 is all that counts...for the last 25 years every M.V. bulb I have ever purchased online (Ebay & Amazon) was manufactured in Mexico, China, Germany, etc.
Your mind reading abilities are amazing... quote, "I am sorry that you bought something of an unknown identity that you obviously now realize was probably not a wise move and are now embarrassed. But good luck, your oddball find may work out for you" How would you know how I feel or think?... Pure unwarranted silly speculation; 30 of the same bulbs were bought before I purchased mine... are we all fools?? I am actually looking forward to getting these bulbs & trying them out. It is me & my money taking a risk on this purchase, not yours. Your fake concern is laughable!... & yes I will let everyone here know the result if the administration doesn't delete this entire thread before that.
As to whose opinion is more relevant.... No ones is.... they're all equally relevant....you answered your own question in the rest of your response.... obviously you have so much education & experience (endless bragging) that it renders anything I have to say or to have done in my life totally irrelevant. Truly insulting...
Your last remarks on ceramic Mogul sockets are just repeating what I said earlier. Why in the world would I want to read (yet more bragging!) your 462 publications?... by someone who has zero respect for me?? I, for one, couldn't care less how many gallons of glue & paint you used over the years, how many feet of electrical cable was used, how many lbs. of screws or nails were used, how much plywood, etc., etc.,, you used to build your traps!! How completely laughable & frankly ridiculous stats! Quote, "Stay calm, you may learn something in the end." What nerve!!! You are telling a fellow, experienced, 62 year old collector to calm down & learn something??? I am not a 2 year old kid..... how unbelievably disrespectful!
There are 5 things in this life I have little patience for: 1.) Thieves, 2.) Braggarts, 3.) Know-it-alls, 4.) Constant Complainers, & 5.) Internet Trolls. Fortunately the only financial loss I ever experienced, online, was from another member who was banned from this site; unfortunately numbers 2,3, 4, & 5 still sadly exist here & everywhere online.
I will place no more replies to this ridiculous thread that has done nothing more, for our members/viewers, than create utter confusion about my original post. I was simply relaying a simple, unassuming message to others about an item that might be of interest to other moth collectors... nothing more. & my thread was met with nothing but negative remarks trying to shoot it down (with zero proof of anything really bad). The administration is free to delete this entire thread if they like.
I'm the one that questioned the socket so no newbie would buy it and think they stick it in the porch light. My bad. John, you clarified it as a Mogul base. I'm not offended, I appreciate it.
Vernon cited what we call as red flags:
* Purportedly from manufacturer not known to make bulbs
* "made in USA" which while possible, is unlikely
* illegally made- no markings on bulb
* sticker on bubble wrap, which anyone can make
* unknown spectrum
* "no returns" no matter what
* Ebay- which does have a record for bogus products
These are causes to stop and think. It made me go back and read the ad again. It wasn't a critique of John.
The fact that Vernon backed it up with credentials DOES mean something. I don't know anyone who has anywhere near the number of hours operating the number of lights he does. So yeah, his credentials so far as that are better than anyone save, perhaps, a lighting engineer who knows the provenance of these lights.
I do have to add my experienced observations to "As to whose opinion is more relevant.... No ones is.... they're all equally relevant...." which would indicate that to be incorrect. For example, I'd not give an ounce of value to any statement by the guy who wrote about moths coming to lights to mate and find food, or the California appellate court judge who said bumblebees are fish. Their opinions- on anything at all- don't matter.
Now, I wonder if there wasn't some overreaction here and pent up frustration. COVID is over, we can chill.
FYI. Explanation of why a spectral distribution curve is the very first consideration one should make before purchasing/using any lamps/bulbs to attract insects. The blacklight band is 320-400 nm. Clear MV lamps emit and fluorescent blacklights emit most of their radiation around 365 nm, and in MV lamps with four additional peaks occurring up to 575nm. It just so happens that (365mn) is the particular wavelength reported to attract the largest numbers of insect species. Saying that, I have published studies where insect attraction was studied for wavelengths from X-rays to the infra-red regions. If one is deciding on which bulbs/lamps to use, they should have these invaluable studies. But, most of the x-purts out there would rather take the useless opinions of FAKEBOOK posters who have never bothered to be intellectually unformed. I have used several thousands of MV and uv fluorescent tubes over the past half century, and of course purchased these in large multiple case quantities directly from manufacturers/distributors to obtain the best costs. What the general user of these lamps does not realize is that if one has e.g. (20) 1000 watt MV lamps from 20 different manufacturers, the you have 20 lamps that all perform differently, some more, some less, some not at all. That is why a spectral distribution analysis of a particular model should be obtained before throwing away your money.
I am writing this to innocently inform members exactly what I found available on ebay.ca (just a few hrs. ago) in the way of searching for "mercury vapor bulbs"(140 results). This has nothing to do with the self ballasted mess/confusion that has been beaten to death above.
Sadly almost all were coated M.V. bulbs for sale. It was said, in the past (in old forums going back to Clark), that the white phosphor coating contains the U.V. light within the bulb (thus safer on the eyes) but making it much less effective than clear bulbs.... perhaps our resident expert can enlighten us further? My own experience (if I'm not shot down) is that the clear bulbs are much more effective as the U.V. light easily penetrates the outer, clear glass envelope & can really draw in the bugs. The higher the wattage the greater the attraction area. I think we are well past the time to find any specific wattage, clear or coated M.V. bulbs as desired. I've seen, on numerous U-Tube videos, a lot of people mothing by sheets with coated M.V. bulbs... many in the tropics were loaded with bugs... so even though these are coated bulbs, they can still draw in hordes of insects... especially under, warm, cloudy, calm moonless nights. I'm sure this point (coated vs. clear bulbs) may be hotly disputed, but I have no desire in getting into ridiculous arguments with anyone. I have always had a good supply of clear, misc. wattage M.V. bulbs on hand (bought at regular intervals online the last 20 years) to use at sheets & in my traps, but I have honestly never used coated bulbs so can't provide any practical experience on them.
There is, however, a practical problem with V. B's insistence on getting the spectral distribution curve of a bulb before you buy it. Hmmm... interesting advice, BUT, Follow along.... I found 16 different brands of M.V. bulbs as follows: Philips, G. E., Satco, Sylvania, Regent, Venture, Halco, Plusrite, Noma, Norelco, Westinghouse, Polarlights, Damar, Standard, Tungsram & Crompton. The following are, IMO, oddball/uncommon wattages: Westinghouse 40W, 50W & 700W, Philips in 75W & 80W. All the other brands had more common wattages most familiar to everyone: 100W, 125W, 175W, 250W, 400W, 1,000W. I have also seen in past searches over the years, 1,500W & even a listing for a 2,000W "Stadium" bulb!...CRAZY! My simple question, to our local expert, is how does he expect the regular hobby collector, including myself, (which makes up probably 90% of us) to sort out this mess from a spectral distribution point of view? Almost all of these brands (many obscure & with no such info any longer available) were manufactured way back in the 70's - maybe up to the early-mid 2,000's. They are all listed as "new old stock" as much of them were, no doubt, found unused in yd./garage sales, old hardware store closures, clearance stores, discount stores, thrift stores, pawn shops, unsold stock tucked away for decades in dark corners of warehouses, etc. It may have been possible to find such spectral distribution info 20 or more years ago for the most common brands/wattages.... but today... Good Luck! I think I, personally, would be in the grave long before I found any really useful info on any of these outdated/outlawed bulbs. I once knew, but cannot recall.... what year were M.V. bulbs banned by the gov. in the U.S.A.?
I have been experimenting the last 2 years with small 100W metal halide bulbs as a newer replacement for my old 100W M.V. bulbs. M.H. bulbs are "updated" newer versions of the old mercury vapor bulbs (but, unfortunately use different ballasts!) M. H. bulbs have additional sodium halide salt elements mixed in with the mercury inside the arc tube & produce an incredibly brilliant, pure white light vs the slightly blue tinted light of true, older M.V. bulbs. M.H. bulbs do, of course, naturally, have a slightly different spectral distribution curve than regular M.V.'s. V. B. has to enlighten us on M.V. vs M.H. bulbs insect drawing power. In my own little experiments the M.H. bulbs draw in slightly less bugs (but some different spp.) than the good old M.V. bulbs, but are still pretty effective. Just a few additional remarks about my own practical experience with M.V. bulbs.... I've personally never had one M.V. bulb fail to draw in any bugs at all... NEVER...& was very happy, over the years, with the results of all the M.V. bulbs of mainline brands like Philips, Sylvania, G.E. & Westinghouse. AND I bought most of them online at Ebay & without fruitless, time wasting searches looking for spectral distribution curves.
Lastly keep in mind that all externally ballasted M.V & M.H. bulbs require separate specific, often heavy, 5-12+ lb ballasts (20-25 lbs for 1,000W bulbs) matched to the particular wattage of the bulb you want to operate. I think you can run identical wattage M.V. & M.H bulbs on a newer M.H. ballast (with a capacitor & starter) but cannot run a M.H. bulb on an older M.V. ballast (with a capacitor only). I may be wrong on this point & if so I'm pretty sure I will be swiftly corrected by our resident expert. Kind of makes a simple plug in, self ballasted bulb sound pretty good as an easy, practical alternative for hobby collectors... My personal opinions only... everyone is free to do as they please. This long post was for informational purposes only. If you disagree with anything I posted here...please be civil in your replies... we all have different experiences that are worthy of discussion, not condemnation.
MV bulbs were the standard for bright, outdoor lighting for decades. They were not made for insect collectors, we were simply the fortunate users, a very tiny niche. It's no secret that decades ago the infrastructure lighting people turned to MH then LED, resulting in a near cessation (if not total cessation) of MV bulbs and fixtures. What we are seeing available are the leftovers, which fortunately appears to be (at this time) sufficient inventory, despite grave concern when MV was phased out.
LED, despite early promises, wasn't performing for insect collectors. That though appears- at least anecdotally- to be changing.
Note too, FWIW, that MV bulb production ~1980s shifted to China, and that most were made by a very few factories and rebranded as Philips, GE, Sylvania, etc.
Bulb performance (e.g., spectral distribution) used to be available from the suppliers as part of the specifications. Now, I suppose one would have to pay to have any specific bulb tested. This may not be a bad idea, as some of the "leftovers" are actually rejects. With any production line, there are tolerances. The fabulous BMW S52 motor from the 1990s was rated by BMW as 240HP -2% +10%, meaning an M3 on the lot could range from 235HP to 264HP...and that's from BMW with their flagship motor- what do you think the variation might be in lightbulbs? Anecdotally, I was involved with a Six Sigma project concerning lightbulbs, and the reject rate was astonishing.
For those with the time and capability, given that some, or many, of the MV bulbs available today are factory rejects, it may be a good idea to buy several and compare performance.
For those without an investment in MV, it may be best to fully investigate LED. Some have been reported by reputable insect collectors as performing well. Personally, I would give greater weight to opinions and data shared by experienced collectors over ratings on Amazon or Ebay or iNaturalist observers.
Again, lots and lots of misinformation presented as factual. Our old friend 'L' did the same thing for decades in this forum -> daily stating made-up BS as factual and readers here sucked it all in. My posts stated 'get informed with factual information'. When things are posted on these forums, those who know even less, believe them, especially when opinions from others are lacking. The senseless statement "time wasting searches looking for spectral distribution curves", it appears some persist that others follow unwise and unproven anecdotal advice. A simple request from the manufacturers has always worked for me. Who among the sane would buy a pig in a poke for thousands of $$. Not only that but consider the tremendous waste of man-hours and expense in attempts at collecting, before one realizes they screwed up and wasted time and money. Certain individuals will never use common sense and continue to follow baseless unfactual misinformation. There will never be a solution for these individuals, go ahead i have no horse in this race. I ask where are the learned published studies promoting such foolishness. There are none.
Blacklights were developed by the USDA in the 1920s, and afterwards when attempts to use these 15 watt fluorescent tubes in actual agricultural field trials, it was discovered that 16 tubes were needed for every acre of farmland and collecting devices were required which needed attention and maintenance. No only that, but no one considered how would one go about installing the wiring needed for 16,000 fixtures among the farmland on a one thousand acre farm so that it did not interfere with the farming activities of planting/harvesting operations. Also not considered was the cost of installation, never ending electrical cost, and the never ending repair, maintenance and replacements of lamps, ballasts and bipin holders and starters, faulty wires, on and on and on. Because of this the intended use of this endeavor never materialized. I have quite a lot of publications going back to the Civil War era and the early 1900s into the teen years where collectors reported long lists of insects (usually lepidoptera and coleoptera) they collected light trapping. Most interesting reading about what these early light trappers used as sources for the 'light'.
I have a unique experience in that my hundreds of traps automatically operated continuously 365-366 days for 54 years using photoelectric on/off controls. I never ever turned off my traps nor did I stop repairing/replacing these traps as they are also subject to the continual ravages of rain intrusion, winds and other bad weather and falling trees and branches. I have a shop dedicated to lamp and component storage/repair of these traps. Obviously no forethought or consideration there by the USDA, as they bought 'a pig in a poke' idea and charged ahead. Regarding the change of MV lamps for highway and home lighting needs, the stated reason by our corrupt government was to eliminate the use of toxic mercury in our society.
Despite the implication stated elsewhere in this thread, the largest bulb produced by the lighting industry is 1000 watts. Anything beyond that is a multilamp array of various lamps (often not a recognized lamp size/shape at all) placed into a specialized fixture.
Regarding the various internal lamp coatings, their primary purpose is to prevent the outward passage of certain wavelengths of rays through the lamp envelope. Actually the lamps with internal coatings (white, black, blue, yellow, etc.) are in most cases the very same bulbs/lamps in clear glass format (with no internal coatings). Gee, the things one can learn by obtaining the literature, who gnu?
Please John, it is not necessary that you work yourself into a wild frenzy and prove something I said was wrong. If you don't like something I said, ignore it and move on. But, it seems you are unable to control your actions. Lets see........
Have you experimented with LED UV lights? If so what are your thought specifically on LED lights for entomology use?
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LED lights are practically useless for insect collecting compared to MV. I used to regularly collect at gas stations and other MV-lighted buildings, but when they switched to LED the number of bugs dropped dramatically. LED will attract a few bugs, but not enough to justify the cost of driving around all night. Fortunately I bought a bunch of clear MV bulbs back when I heard they were being phased out, so my light rig is still very effective. Too bad MV bulbs are difficult to find these days.
