Clear, self ballasted, 450w M.V. Bulbs

[Chuck]

LED lights are practically useless for insect collecting compared to MV. I used to regularly collect at gas stations and other MV-lighted buildings, but when they switched to LED the number of bugs dropped dramatically. LED will attract a few bugs, but not enough to justify the cost of driving around all night.

Which type of LED? The LEDs used on storefronts are probably mostly white.

There have been anecdotal discussions by Lepidopterists about LEDs that "work". These need to have the 365nm spectrum.

See this discussion- perhaps boghunter can update us on his experience. viewtopic.php?p=6620&hilit=LED#p6620

[Trehopr1]

I remember when "mothing" was supposed to be a fun pastime.

You wait for a humid night, without a full moon, you set up your rigging and pull up a lawn chair. You have your collecting jars + net at the ready --- and, you bring along a little cooler with a six pack of beer !

If you have a friend or two to go along with then you sit around telling old collecting stories or talk about people or places that you have been.

But, most of all you HAVE FUN !

It's like taking a brief fishing trip....

All this back and forth "sparring" about the apparent SCIENCE involved in simple night collecting SURE DOES take all the "fun" factor out of this thread.

I've always been of the opinion, that if you put up the lights ---they will come.....

You get what you get and you pack it up when you've had enough.

My compliments go out to those who are on ANOTHER LEVEL of night collecting (that I cannot fathom); but, to each their own....

Let's just kindly leave this subject as enough said !

[boghaunter1]

Please Vernon & Chuck, it is not necessary that you both work yourself into a wild frenzy (haha... what hyperbole!) and prove something I said was wrong. If you don't like something I said, ignore it and move on. But, it seems you are also unable to control your actions. Lets see........

V.B & C.....Yes indeed..... Let's see if you can both follow this advice. & Chuck, Those statements were a preemptive move to guard against instantaneous trolling by V.B. & yourself because I am still feeling bullied & intimidated & am scared to place any comments on here because of the fear my statements will be shot down. & Chuck...please stop playing the V.B. victim card... he is certainly capable of defending himself without your help. Even now with my latest statement on M.V. bulbs V.B. still continues to dismiss my comments out of hand. & by the way... I have a 1,500W M.H. bulb (from Amazon) in my possession at this time... just waiting for a good deal on a ballast to run it.

John K.

[Chuck]

If you have a friend or two to go along with then you sit around telling old collecting stories or talk about people or places that you have been.

But, most of all you HAVE FUN !

the apparent SCIENCE involved in simple night collecting SURE DOES take all the "fun" factor out of this thread.

It was supposed to be fun. We thought, sort of, it was.

We'd sit in the back yard with a 60W incandescent bulb. About once a week we'd get all excited when a Sphinx moth came in. We thought we were doing well.

Then, some eight years later, I moved 20 miles away to a rural area. And bought a big BL. Holy @#$% !!! I caught more in one night than we had in years waiting patiently by that incandescent. In hindsight, we weren't having fun, we were ignorant and wasting time! Nobody was there to tell us that incandecents were a waste of time, nobody told us about MV.

So out in the sticks I piled on species new to me, at unbelievable quantities.

Then we went to Ecuador, and realized that the tropics and MV absolutely smoked summers in New England. We caught more in one night in Ecuador than I had in a year in my rural happy place.

Solomon Islands wasn't fun. I dragged the whole MV setup and a generator halfway around the world for virtually nothing. Not fun.

Now I put the MV out, back at my happy spot by the forest, same place for 23 years, and hope. I attract 5% of what I did five years ago. Then I get up before sunup to beat the bluejays, only to go back in empty handed. It is not fun. We are moving somewhere more fun, and more sane.

[Chuck]

Please Vernon & Chuck, it is not necessary that you both work yourself into a wild frenzy (haha... what hyperbole!) and prove something I said was wrong. If you don't like something I said, ignore it and move on. But, it seems you are also unable to control your actions. Lets see........

V.B & C.....Yes indeed..... Let's see if you can both follow this advice. & Chuck, Those statements were a preemptive move to guard against instantaneous trolling by V.B. & yourself because I am still feeling bullied & intimidated & am scared to place any comments on here because of the fear my statements will be shot down. & Chuck...please stop playing the V.B. victim card... he is certainly capable of defending himself without your help. Even now with my latest statement on M.V. bulbs V.B. still continues to dismiss my comments out of hand. & by the way... I have a 1,500W M.H. bulb (from Amazon) in my possession at this time... just waiting for a good deal on a ballast to run it.

John K.

John, I don't offer insights for Vernon, I do it for others who may not be able to discern between fact and fiction. I do it for you, to point out that you attacked Vernon, and you continue, with the hope that you will desist.

[boghaunter1]

Chuck.... Please stop trolling my every comment... in other words back off, quit repeating yourself, & quit harassing me! Must you always have the last word? I repeat, "I am still feeling bullied & intimidated & am scared to place any comments on here because of the fear my statements will be shot down." I haven't done anything wrong & have only been trying (& have the right to) defend myself against unwarranted criticisim & outright dismissal of anything I have posted in this thread. Please stop.

John K.

[Trehopr1]

Chuck,

I subscribe to the notion' that when it comes to night collecting you "make do" with whatever situation or conditions you are presented with. It's kind of like the thought "when all you have is apples --- you make applesauce".

I suppose the idea of fun for me is just BEING ABLE to go out and do it; and make the most of it !

I do not go out for an evening of lighting or sugaring with the intention or "overachieving" ambition at out-doing each outing at every turn.

If something comes in which is a new find (for me) then great; and, if I (on the other hand) pick up very little then ---so be it.

I still HAVE FUN taking part in doing it regardless; and yet, if others cannot share in these thoughts then --- you surely have become jaded.

And that unfortunately is your loss....

[Chuck]

"I am still feeling bullied & intimidated & am scared to place any comments on here because of the fear my statements will be shot down."

I haven't done anything wrong

First, go back and read what you wrote about / to Vernon and check that second statement again. Do you really think that was just fine? Let me remind you of but ONE thing you wrote: "you are just a loud, overbearing, nasty person... all your increasingly boring, repetitive, self promoting posts/replies (to almost any topic brought up here"

Second, go put your big boy pants on. Intimidated, for God's sake.

[livingplanet3]

LED lights are practically useless for insect collecting compared to MV. I used to regularly collect at gas stations and other MV-lighted buildings, but when they switched to LED the number of bugs dropped dramatically. LED will attract a few bugs, but not enough to justify the cost of driving around all night. Fortunately I bought a bunch of clear MV bulbs back when I heard they were being phased out, so my light rig is still very effective. Too bad MV bulbs are difficult to find these days.

There used to be quite a few MV lights on the utility poles / buildings around my rural area, but that was back in the 1980s-1990s, and they've gradually been replaced with LED-based lamps over the past couple of decades. I can well recall the odd light that these MV lamps gave off, which made skin and clothing appear strange colors. I believe they were 175 watts. I was frequently exposed to these typical, consumer-grade MV "barn lights" in my youth, but can't recall ever having experienced any eye irritation from them. It's my understanding that while the outer borosilicate glass envelope that encloses the internal bulb helps to significantly reduce the amount of shortwave UV emitted, quite a bit of UVA (365 nm) radiation still passes through -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury-v ... et_hazards

The only kind of UV lights that I've ever personally used for collecting insects are the white, fluorescent UV tubes that emit only longwave UV (UVA), and are commonly used for display / entertainment purposes to make colors fluoresce, and also happen to be attractive to insects.

I assume however, that some of the MV bulbs that have been discussed on this forum, are special-purpose, more powerful ones that emit a greater amount of the more hazardous shortwave UV?

[vabrou]

Ed, only in the recent years has this technology improved to be worth looking into. But, I have no desire to fiddle with this still inadequate method. I have been designing and fabricating UV light traps since 1968 and I have a large squirrelled away inventory of various wattages of lamps, bulbs, tubes, ballast and needed components to use these, enough for many more decades of heavy usage. Any reports that LEDs are equal or better than the past methods and equipment are made by persons that are inexperienced or unfamiliar with non-led methods, or are just exaggerating for the purpose of notoriety. I know several local light trappers that are using LEDs of many configurations and not one of them exceeds even 1% the quantity of insects that just one of my light traps attract and automatically capture. One of my cohorts have resigned himself to collecting using leds handfuls of tiny microleps, mostly the types that have never been described in scientific literature.

Not only for those reasons, but last year we began seriously downsizing our 500 unit insect trap inventory to about 30 or so traps continuing to operate here at our home. After a lifetime of living and breathing insect collecting and research 24 hours every day for over a half century, we are continuing operating some of our traps mostly to extend our world record of these continual activities. But, we have published 462 research investigations so far, and have another 600 manuscripts in various stages of completion/incompletion which we continue to work on daily, hopefully for another decade or so. My family and I have expended out of pocket without remuneration about $2,000,000.00 over the past 54 years just involving our entomological activities. This included the purchase of the forested property, the AESS, numerous vehicles, tractors, 6 electrical generators, 12 chainsaws, numerous buildings, garages, master collection storage, multiple desktop pcs, over one million insect pins, 860+ Cornell specimen storage drawers and needed cabinets, considerable laboratory equipment, pest controls, storm repairs, on and on and on and on. We have been selling some of our traps to other collectors for the past two years and continue to do so. We are physically unable to make anymore field trips around the state and still have available a ~10' cargo trailer filled with camping and collecting equipment, see attached jpg. Hopefully I have answered your question. And to correct concerning MV lamps, they have never been banned anywhere or anytime. This person making these statements has a reading comprehension deficit. What was banned was was the use of mercury required for the manufacture of MV lamps.

[vabrou]

Back later, have to go run the traps (picking up what they captured in the past 24 hours). All of my traps for the past 54 years are automatic capture/automatic dispatching. I never have to stay up during hours of sleep and only minimally during some field trips. Think smart, it has worked for me.

[boghaunter1]

So What's up Chuck? Back Again?

Not Surprising really...in fact it is, by now, perfectly predictable behaviour from you. Calling me immature with your brilliantly original "put on your big boy pants " comment is only throwing more gas on the fire. Escalating insults, back & forth, won't bring this ridiculous situation to an end. If you think, for one moment, that I will back down from ANYTHING I have said on this thread... well... dream on!

V.B. doesn't seem to care much anymore about this silly situation & frankly neither do I...as well I think everyone else reading this thread is getting just a little tired of this back & forth nonsense. Please give up your questionable crusade against me. This is an interesting thread if it wasn't broken up with YOUR ongoing mission (Why??) of trying to make me look bad. Your good friend from Ohio tried the same thing & look what happened to him...

Please stop harassing me...

John K.

[EdTomologist]

Hi Vernon, perhaps I should be messaging you directly but I feel that this information may be useful to others. Perhaps it may be worthy of an additional thread. I ask about high intensity 365nm LEDs that are being developed and used in insect traps. My understanding of them to date is that they attract a small number of what other light sources would attract because of the penetrating ability of the light. So theoretically the number of insects attracted should be proportional to the distance of that the light travels squared * pi (area of a circle) and hence there is a exponential increase in insects when comparing more far reaching lights.

Despite this obvious flaw in current LEDs they pose an advantage that I would like to explore. They are designed to solely emit light around the wavelength of light targeted. Hence they are much more efficient when compared to other lights that produce all kinds of other non attractive wavelengths plus all that heat. They also use less power.

Now. Some of you may know I am a diurnal moth and wasp moth aficionado. My idea would be to create a self powered (solar) led moth trap with a collecting chamber that could be left of for a longer period of time and then checked on occasionally (Similar to some of the bait traps I’ve used before). My experience targeting these wasp moths in South America suggests that they are attracted by a variety of lights including even incandescent lights and often are some of the first to show up. Hence an automated led light trap running on a timer could greatly aid me in my collecting efforts.

I’m still a rather young lad and with the knowledge that the typical collecting lights are being phased out I want to be sure I’m exploring options now so I can reap the rewards later … call it good foresight if you will.

I have an article about an LEDs collecting light I’m in the process of constructing. ill be traveling for a while so it’s on pause till I get back.

Hopefully if my light goes well I can at least plan some trips down south and collect a fraction of the wasp moths that you have collected Vernon!

Open to comments and suggestions! Now that I have explained my reasoning for pursuing LED over other high wattage bulbs we can shift the discussion from “why not use LEDs” to “how to optimize the use of LEDs”

[boghaunter1]

Unfrigging believable! I just wrote that V.B. had lost interest in this silly back & forth & he just now writes "And to correct concerning MV lamps, they have never been banned anywhere or anytime. This person making these statements has a reading comprehension deficit." He is, of course, referring to me! Was accusing me of having a "reading deficit" (= being stupid!) really necessary Vernon Brou.? I'm pretty sure everyone here, including yourself, knew exactly what I meant... I simply wanted to know what year did M.V. bulb manufacturing end in the U.S.A. My Good Lord!...Talk about petty nitpicking & snide, completely unnecessary remarks! First I referred to a Mogul socket as a "standard" Mogul socket.....WHOA ....horrible mistake! & now I didn't ask the question properly.... Oh....How perfectly awful! How ridiculous & petty can some people be. Hmmm... & Chuck accuses me of calling his buddy "nasty"..... Oh just terrible... I don't think anyone who once called himself the Louisiana Curmudgeon is a warm & fuzzy character. Curmudgeon means an old person in a perpetually bad/foul mood....

I have a serious suggestion for you V.B..... I am just so tired of this unnecessary & ridiculous sniping back & forth (as are, I'm sure, the owner & administers of this site)... from this point on can we PLEASE both agree to not refer to each other in derogatory, overly critical terms (I just want peace) It is certainly obvious that neither of us can stand the other.... so let's just stay out of each others way. The same goes for you Chuck!

John K.

[vabrou]

Ed, my e-mail is: vabrou@bellsouth.net Don't have but one or two wasp moths here in Louisiana. Southern Florida has 10-12 species. Not technically a wasp moth but one of my favorites which is muy abundant here in south Louisiana. I have captured 10,000+ adults of Cosmosoma myrodora at UV light traps. But this species is both diurnal and nocturnal. It has at least 4 annual broods here in Louisiana.

Perhaps, Leds will eventually improve, but it has taken several decades to get to this point, today.

[EdTomologist]

Absolutely stunning Vabrou, I’ll be emailing you soon!

[vabrou]

EdTomologist here is a freely accessible link to a one page synopsis account (pdf) concerning Horama panthalon texana Grote in Louisiana I published about 7 years ago.
https://www.academia.edu/30865828/Horam ... _Louisiana

[jhyatt]

Nice Sessiid!

These must be the most fragile moths under the sun. I find that the legs and antennae part company from the moth if I just look at them too hard.

jh

[wollastoni]

Friends : this thread will be deleted if there is a continued lack of civility.

Would be a pity as there are some interesting comments.

[EdTomologist]

Here is a small sampling of the wasp moths in my collection. I’m very particular about mounting the legs and everything in a wasp moth plays a role in its effectiveness mimicking wasps.