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Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:03 pm
by eurytides
Appalachiensis is about 3/4 canadensis. So for example, the black anal margin on the hindwing is much thicker, closer to canadensis than glaucus. But like Chuck said, most of the pertinent characteristics are better seen on the ventral side.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:16 pm
by eurytides
I will throw mine into the mix. Here are some canadensis and glaucus. Aberrant female 2nd row 4th specimen. Aberrant male lacking black anal margin on HW bottom left corner.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:38 pm
by Trehopr1
Thank you eurytides and chuck for your expertise in answering my question.


Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:06 am
by mothman55
Boghaunter1, an aberrant very similar to yours showed up on naturalist a couple of years ago. I believe it was from Nova Scotia, but not sure. And it was photographed but not collected, so it probably ended up in a birds beak or a car grill, sad.

- 20211112_093044 copy.jpg (429.84 KiB) Viewed 8545 times
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:40 am
by eurytides
New Brunswick, June 11, 2021.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:07 pm
by boghaunter1
Thank you very much, mothman55 & eurytides, for that additional Canadian example similar to my aberrant. Indeed, it would have been a great, very rare example, (looked to be in great shape too!), to have been collected & preserved to show the extreme variety possible in P. canadensis. Another, very nearly identical Canadian specimen to mine, was sold on Ebay, by a Quebec collector/dealer about a decade ago; I have the photo, but, unfortunately, can't locate it now...
My particular specimen looks like it is somewhere between ab. "fletcheri & ab. "radianthus"? or is it var. "calverleyi" (as in P. asterius, plate XLI, in Holland's "Butterfly book"??
John K.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:27 pm
by boghaunter1
Here is an unusual P. canadensis? P. glaucus? that I found on the internet years ago:

- Papilio%20canadensis%20abberant211.jpg (24.38 KiB) Viewed 8524 times

- Papilio%20canadensis%20abberant212.jpg (24.42 KiB) Viewed 8524 times
John K.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:45 pm
by boghaunter1
Found yet another older photo of P. troilus... aberrant "radianthus" with similar markings to my P. canadensis...
![Papilio%20troilus%20aberration%20[radianthus]%20female%20(USA).jpg](./download/file.php?id=1879)
- Papilio%20troilus%20aberration%20[radianthus]%20female%20(USA).jpg (57.78 KiB) Viewed 8522 times
John K.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:06 pm
by boghaunter1
Mothman55... here is another similar specimen, to yours, of "fletcheri" from Quebec in 2009; yours is even more extreme with more solid black markings... a real beauty!

- P. canadensis fm fletcheri from Que.2009.jpg (96.37 KiB) Viewed 8518 times

- P. canadensis fm. fetcheri Quebec 2009 ventral.jpg (93.13 KiB) Viewed 8518 times
John K.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:12 pm
by boghaunter1
Yet another "fletcheri" (P. rutulus) from Oregon on 01 July 2018 (photo only... not collected),

- Papilio rutulus fm fletcheri - Pendleton, Oregon 01 July 2018 -RARE.jpg (156.29 KiB) Viewed 8517 times

- Papilio rutulus fm. fletcheri - Oregon, 01 July 2018.jpg (249.92 KiB) Viewed 8517 times
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:35 pm
by boghaunter1
Yet another "fletcheri" from Utah,

- Papilio rutulus ab. fletcheri - dorsal - Utah.jpg (459.73 KiB) Viewed 8513 times

- Papilio rutulus ab. fletcheri - ventral - Utah.jpg (485.11 KiB) Viewed 8513 times
John K.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:54 pm
by boghaunter1
Totally forgot I had collected this! My own raggy Saskatchewan specimen of "fletcheri",

- IMG_2297 Medium Web view.jpg (78.1 KiB) Viewed 8512 times

- IMG_2295 Medium Web view.jpg (78.36 KiB) Viewed 8512 times
John K.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:00 pm
by boghaunter1
Another ab. female P. canadensis from NE Sask.,

- IMG_2301 Medium Web view.jpg (69.68 KiB) Viewed 8511 times

- IMG_2306 Medium Web view.jpg (74.9 KiB) Viewed 8511 times
John K.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:24 pm
by mothman55
Great photos, makes me want to get out there are find another. June can't come soon enough.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:09 pm
by Trehopr1
What were the circumstances surrounding the capture of your very special find mothman55 ?
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:47 pm
by Trehopr1
Here is another of those Austin, Ohio specimens
which was wild collected (May 21 thru June 15 2013).
Though, looking typical for a (light phase) female it
had VERY bold blue hindwings with just a "dash" of
extra red present. A large specimen as well....

Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:37 pm
by boghaunter1
WOW! Absolutely BEAUTIFUL.... very uncommon fm....Thanks for posting!
John K.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:22 pm
by Chuck
Trehopr1 wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:47 pm
Here is another of those Austin, Ohio specimens
which was wild collected (May 21 thru June 15 2013).
Though, looking typical for a (light phase) female it
had VERY bold blue hindwings with just a "dash" of
extra red present. A large specimen as well....
Any chance you can post a photo of the verso?
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:52 pm
by Trehopr1
Hi Chuck, so sorry but, at the moment I don't have any (verso) pictures of any of the Austin, Ohio specimens. My dealer connection (for specimens) is the present owner of that lot. I'm probably going to visit him sometime in May and it is then that I can get some secondary photos of that butterfly.
The day that I was there (a week ago) I had a lot to survey and organize for him doing my 4-hour stay. He is 79 years old.
I will definitely get photos for you the next time I visit him.
Re: Papilio glaucus (natural occurring genetic anomalies)
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:45 am
by Chuck
Trehopr1 wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:52 pm
Hi Chuck, so sorry but, at the moment I don't have any (verso) pictures of any of the Austin, Ohio specimens. My dealer connection (for specimens) is the present owner of that lot. I'm probably going to visit him sometime in May and it is then that I can get some secondary photos of that butterfly.
The day that I was there (a week ago) I had a lot to survey and organize for him doing my 4-hour stay. He is 79 years old.
I will definitely get photos for you the next time I visit him.
Say hello to Leroy for me.