InsectNet forum

Posted: **Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:51 am**

adamcotton wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:26 am
In cases like this where two phenotypes occur in the same general area it does suggest that there may be more than one species involved, and further studies are needed.

Adam.

To be clear, because I wasn't, proper jodutta is found in: Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ivory Coast, Ghana
ciceronis is found in Nigeria (east of the Niger river), Cameroon, Gabon, Angola (north), Rep. of Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo (Mayombe)
The Dahomey Gap separates these two, and so they are geographically isolated.

The other 2 subspecies are basically Congolese and found in the north or south of the country, but I doubt their ranges are well delimited and it seems they mix.

Posted: **Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:08 pm**

daveuk wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:09 am A pair of C fumana(?)from Cameroun & a badly set (by me) male C haynae from DRC. I am not sure if this is just a form of fumana.

Your fumana are C. f. balluca Fox & Howarth, 1968.

The haynae is C. h. diphyia Karsch, 1894. The nominate ssp. is found in southern DRC and dorsally has brown HWs, lacking the yellow border seen in diphyia.

The females of both species are fairly different.

Here are some of my C. h. diphyia Karsch, 1894:

(males)
8/iv/2017 Near Mbogi, Ituri (1°41'55"N, 30°07'35"E) 1250-1300m

3/vii/2014 Nebobongo, Haut-Uele (2°27'N, 27°37'E) 790m

(females)

20/i/2017 Mamove, Beni Territory, Nord Kivu 1050m (ex. R. Ducarme)

Posted: **Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:35 pm**

Those are incredible specimens. Excellent quality. Females are really beautiful Thank You for the information on my specimens also.

Posted: **Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:29 pm**

Cymothoe orphnina orphnina Karsch, 1894

(male)

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:10 pm**

Cymothoe lurida tristis Overlaet, 1952

(male)

Van Velzen suggests this ssp. should be seen as a junior synonym of C. lurida hesione Weymer, 1907.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:00 pm**

Cabintom wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:00 am Cymothoe zenkeri Richelmann, 1913
(male)

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:51 am**

Here is the female of the similar Cymothoe indamora indamora (Hewitson, 1866).

28/II/2017 Kasugho, Lubero Territory, Nord Kivu 1800m (ex. R. Ducarme)

I don't yet have a male. Edit: As pointed out below I do have a male.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:04 pm**

Another Cymothoe from DRC

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:17 pm**

Cabintom wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:51 am Here is the female of the similar Cymothoe indamora indamora (Hewitson, 1866).

28/II/2017 Kasugho, Lubero Territory, Nord Kivu 1800m (ex. R. Ducarme)

I don't yet have a male.

Hi Cabintom, I was wondering whether your image of zenkeri is actually indamora ? I have indamora from Uganda plus a male from DRC which I presume is an abb. so Ugandan ones would be c indamora amorinda, but I’m not sure on the differences between the ssp with only having one strange male from DRC. I will post some pics

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:25 pm**

specimens from Uganda C indamora amorinda, plus what I have labelled C indamora abb from CAR

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:42 pm**

Hello MAC,

That C. cyclades is quite a dimorphic species !

Outstanding....

Judging by your various pictures you've posted it seems you have specialized in the butterfly fauna of Africa. Just my casual observance.

Another of our members (mcheki) has specialized as well on the butterfly fauna of Africa. He has posted quite a bit on the ICF and his holdings appear to be extensive and are very impressive !

Perhaps you know of him. I'd like to see him once again start posting here because there are a lot of unique species in Africa (beyond the common typical species) often offered by dealers.

I (for one) very much enjoy seeing African material as it seems that much of what is (unique) and collected there goes directly to Europe; (except the common stuff) which seems to head here to the US.

Keep up the photo posting when possible --- love it !

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:56 pm**

Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:42 pm Hello MAC,

That C. cyclones is quite a dimorphic species !

Outstanding....

Judging by your various pictures you've posted it seems you have specialized in the butterfly fauna of Africa. Just my casual observance.

Another of our members (mcheki) has specialized as well on the butterfly fauna of Africa. He has posted quite a bit on the ICF and his holdings appear to be extensive and are very impressive !

Perhaps you know of him. I'd like to see him once again start posting here because there are a lot of unique species in Africa (beyond the common typical species) often offered by dealers.

I (for one) very much enjoy seeing African material as it seems that much of what is (unique) and collected there goes directly to Europe; (except the common stuff) which seems to head here to the US.

Keep up the photo posting when possible --- love it !

You are correct in your assessment, I do have a large collection of African material for sure and also communicate with mcheki, his collection is very impressive for sure. When I get some spare time I will post more, but time just seems to run away all the while

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:24 pm**

The label in the photo seems to read C. cyclades but MAC didn't correct the name "C. cyclones" that Trehopr1 used.

A search seems to suggest that C. cyclades is correct. Probably "cyclades" was autocorrected to 'cyclones' in Trehopr1's word processor. I always recommend turning it off.

Adam.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:40 pm**

Thank you Adam for catching that ! Indeed, I forgot about turning off autocorrect but I'm going to do it now as this has happened before.

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:15 pm**

MAC wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:17 pm
Hi Cabintom, I was wondering whether your image of zenkeri is actually indamora ? I have indamora from Uganda plus a male from DRC which I presume is an abb. so Ugandan ones would be c indamora amorinda, but I’m not sure on the differences between the ssp with only having one strange male from DRC. I will post some pics

Would you look at that! Yes, you're correct the male "zenkeri" I posted is indamora !

Here's a true zenkeri male:

24/viii/2015 Q. Malepe, Beni, Nord Kivu (0°29'N, 29°28'E) 1180m

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:32 pm**

MAC wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:17 pm I have indamora from Uganda plus a male from DRC which I presume is an abb. so Ugandan ones would be c indamora amorinda, but I’m not sure on the differences between the ssp with only having one strange male from DRC. I will post some pics

I believe the aberration you posted is more likely to be a zenkeri specimen with well developed white markings. What I'm now seeing is that in males of zenkeri the HW margin is more solidly black than in indamora. Further the outer edge of the black basal area is straighter in zenkeri. Lastly, part way up the FW costa of indamora there is a small black intrusion into the white discal band which is absent in zenkeri.

The description of C. indamora amorinda can be found here: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/50814000
It includes a discussion comparing it both to the nominate ssp. and to zenkeri.
The plate accompanying the description for amorinda is here: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/50813998

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:51 pm**

A pair of C. cyclades from my collection:

(male)

(female)

Posted: **Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:19 pm**

Some amazing specimens & information on this thread. Glad that what is in my opinion a very underrated genus is getting the attention it deserves. At least on this forum.
Some more of mine:
Two female C sangaris. C.A.R.
A female C egesta from C.A.R.
A male C hesiodotus(?) Cameroun

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:41 am**

daveuk wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:19 pm Some amazing specimens & information on this thread. Glad that what is in my opinion a very underrated genus is getting the attention it deserves. At least on this forum.
Some more of mine:
Two female C sangaris. C.A.R.
A female C egesta from C.A.R.
A male C hesiodotus(?) Cameroun

Your C. egesta is actually C. confusa. The abstract of the paper justifying the split can be read here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19674305/

For the third specimen, I'd lean more towards C. colmanti.
Here's the colmanti type: https://www.africamuseum.be/en/research ... 1042/taxon
Here's a paratype of hesiodotus clarior (note that this is a different subspecies from yours which would be the nominate): https://www.africamuseum.be/en/research ... 1091/taxon
"Papillons du Gabon" illustrates a male of the nominate hesiodotus. That specimen does not have a solid black HW margin.

Regardless, van Velzen (https://edepot.wur.nl/283400) shows that the taxonomy of the group (including lurida) is far from being sorted.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:14 am**

Cabintom wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 5:41 am
daveuk wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:19 pm Some amazing specimens & information on this thread. Glad that what is in my opinion a very underrated genus is getting the attention it deserves. At least on this forum.
Some more of mine:
Two female C sangaris. C.A.R.
A female C egesta from C.A.R.
A male C hesiodotus(?) Cameroun
Your C. egesta is actually C. confusa. The abstract of the paper justifying the split can be read here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19674305/

For the third specimen, I'd lean more towards C. colmanti.
Here's the colmanti type: https://www.africamuseum.be/en/research ... 1042/taxon
Here's a paratype of hesiodotus clarior (note that this is a different subspecies from yours which would be the nominate): https://www.africamuseum.be/en/research ... 1091/taxon
"Papillons du Gabon" illustrates a male of the nominate hesiodotus. That specimen does not have a solid black HW margin.

Regardless, van Velzen (https://edepot.wur.nl/283400) shows that the taxonomy of the group (including lurida) is far from being sorted.

Thank You Cabintom for your help & all the information provided yet again. I have another papered female " egesta" somewhere. Probably from same locality. If & when I get around to setting it will send you a picture.

Meanwhile I have another question:
Cymothoe lucasi: Rare? Common &/or infrequently collected?
My late friend Danny Burke from this forum told me he envied me my pair of this species as he was unable to get hold of even a male. Given that he had one of the most comprehensive private collections of world lepidoptera I have ever seen I believe this species must be rare or rarely collected.
My pair is from Gabon which is sadly the only data I have. From a Belgian dealer/collector on ebay about 12 years ago. The female is possibly my largest & certainly my most expensive Cymothoe.

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