Strange pupae development

Discussion on butterflies, moths and skippers
Post Reply
teinopalpus
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:56 am
Slovakia

Strange pupae development

Post by teinopalpus »

Hi,

Although I already reared many hundreds Papilios, now I found strange pupae development I never saw until now. I would like to ask another experienced breeders what can cause this anomaly.
What is found is when pupa starting to pharate , one side of pupae is visible to develop, but oposite one did not change at all. It affects only "wings and head" part of pupa. Abdomen part is visible. I have several pupae with same appearance.

Additional info :

1. Larvae were collected in nature - parasiting is possible. But I saw many parasited pupae and "it was" different.
2. Pupae had normal hibernation, no unnatural changes in weight or colour.
3. Pupae are living ( they are moving ) until maximum transparent, but did not hatch at time and I think they are already dead.

friendly, Jan
Attachments
PUPA_01.jpg
PUPA_01.jpg (91.85 KiB) Viewed 1519 times
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: Strange pupae development

Post by wollastoni »

Interesting, let's hope the butterfly will emerge !
Could be a bi-form result with one aberrant half... or it could be a totally normal imago.

Are these specimen bred from wild caterpillars, or from 2nd, 3rd generations of breeding ?
User avatar
adamcotton
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:24 pm
Location: Thailand
Thailand

Re: Strange pupae development

Post by adamcotton »

I have very rarely seen this before. The half of the pupa that does not develop remains hard, and unfortunately the pupa cannot hatch. I have no idea what can cause this or how to prevent it. If it is happening to several pupae from the same batch it way be due to desiccation on one side during diapause, or a strange hormonal imbalance.

Adam.
teinopalpus
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:56 am
Slovakia

Re: Strange pupae development

Post by teinopalpus »

Thank you both for reactions.

Larvae were wild collected. Now I think Adam can be right with some form of desiccation. I have several pupae affected exactly same way and what is strange - it is same side of pupaes. As I am laying all pupae on one side :) to have clear look on one side of wing part to check development - it can have impact. I was not thinking about desiccation because never heard about possibility to desiccate only part of pupa while butterfly inside is normally developing.

Jan
User avatar
adamcotton
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:24 pm
Location: Thailand
Thailand

Re: Strange pupae development

Post by adamcotton »

teinopalpus wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:37 am I have several pupae affected exactly same way and what is strange - it is same side of pupaes. As I am laying all pupae on one side ...
Does the side of the pupa that fails to develop always correspond to the side that was either up or down, or were the pupae not all placed on the same side?

Maybe you should place the pupae either face up or face down, which would be more natural. In nature they would never be on one side.

Adam.
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: Strange pupae development

Post by wollastoni »

teinopalpus wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:37 am Thank you both for reactions.

Larvae were wild collected. Now I think Adam can be right with some form of desiccation. I have several pupae affected exactly same way and what is strange - it is same side of pupaes. As I am laying all pupae on one side :) to have clear look on one side of wing part to check development - it can have impact. I was not thinking about desiccation because never heard about possibility to desiccate only part of pupa while butterfly inside is normally developing.

Jan
It must be the issue indeed, as they don't stay on one side in nature.
teinopalpus
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:56 am
Slovakia

Re: Strange pupae development

Post by teinopalpus »

I attached quick photo of how are/were pupae placed. They are partially on one side for better stabilization. Using such position for many years, until now without problem. All pupae are placed same way.
Part that fails to develop is one closer to bottom of box - always, but have also one pupa which is all pharate on wings and abdomen part, but unchanging part is head, anttenaes and legs part.
This batch of pupae is totally strange. I got them in autumn. Everything was OK until May. I even noticed for 4 pupae raising of weight in May ( which I think is not possible if some kind of parasite do not lay eggs inside recently )
Have another batch of pupae of this species from other ( european ) locality which were kept in same conditions and all are hatching OK.

Will open one pupa during weekend to see if imago was well developed.

Jan
Attachments
20230607_204154.jpg
20230607_204154.jpg (49.19 KiB) Viewed 1372 times
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in