Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

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joachim
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Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by joachim »

I wonder if anyone has a larger one?
I bought this one once in the 70's at an insect fair for relatively little money. I think the butterfly is not rare.
https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?cod ... EDbB711axX

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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Trehopr1 »

Nice looking example. Looking more closely at your photograph it looks to be about 245mm. Your right forewing doesn't exactly line up underneath the zero (0).

This is a phenomenal species of moth which is probably most notable for its sheer wing expanse. Males typically fall (within the size range) of somewhere between 8 (1/2) and 10 inches wingspan when the trailing edge of the forewings are perpendicular to the body.

Females (start) at about the 10-in wingspan on up to 11 1/2 +. Their bodies tend to be heftier in build and because they carry the eggs their wingspan is naturally bigger for more lift.

The species seems to be fairly available. Specimens with an honest wingspan of 10 inches or more can get (very pricey) because of course, everyone wants the biggest example they can find. I have seen at least a dozen present in private collections here in the US but, most were (males).

The largest example that I have ever seen (personally) was a very impressive female measuring just over 11 (1/4) inches in the collection of Hermann Strecker.

If anyone does own a larger example than the specimen measured by Guinness; then I doubt that they would advertise it.

Some people are very reserved about the things that they own and simply don't feel the need to advertise (or bring attention to themselves) over any outstanding things they have acquired.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by daveuk »

Here are my only two specimens of T agrippina
Both males (I presume) from Brazil 1985.
Shame about the broken antennae. They were in this condition when I got them.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Trehopr1 »

Very nice Dave ! 🎉👍
The larger of the two is very impressive.
I've not yet been able to land a good example. Over here, if people have them they may only have 1or 2 so, they generally won't part with them.

I'm bound to get a good one but, I'm certain I'll have to pay substantially more now that the prices on these and everything else has bumped up.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by daveuk »

Trehopr1 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 5:52 pm Very nice Dave ! 🎉👍
The larger of the two is very impressive.
I've not yet been able to land a good example. Over here, if people have them they may only have 1or 2 so, they generally won't part with them.

I'm bound to get a good one but, I'm certain I'll have to pay substantially more now that the prices on these and everything else has bumped up.
Thanks trehopr.
I know exactly what you mean. I paid five British Pounds each for these. They go for a lot more now.
I hope you manage to get one & it doesn't break the bank. Ours is by far from a cheap hobby these days.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Trehopr1 »

Indeed Dave, our hobby has certainly evolved in a pricey direction. 😩

You know if one could just stick to collecting only what you can personally find this passion wouldn't seem so expensive; excepting of course the cost of proper storage (drawers, tight fitting field boxes etc.)

However, once you have been bitten by the "exotic insect habit" it's hard to go back and be resolute in only what "you can capture".

Field trips abroad are now far too costly and complicated for most of us to endeavor in. Yet, one can still find nice exotic things at fairs, dealers, and at old collections being parted out --- so, all is not lost and one can still enjoy acquiring exotic things from far away lands we will likely never visit....
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Trehopr1 »

Here I post the nicest looking artistic rendering
of this fabulous moth (that I know of). Some of
you may be familiar with the book it comes from.

Good artwork is hard to find these days...

Image
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by 58chevy »

The underside of T agrippina is impressive also. I'm not sure whether there is a brown form and a blue form, or whether it depends on the viewing angle.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by eurytides »

All these female specimens and yet no one has taken the time to get eggs and rear. We still don’t know the life history of this species, which isn’t even that rare.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Trehopr1 »

Indeed, eurytides I agree.
The species is an "enigma" in that manner. One would think after all these years we would have a better knowledge of this mammoth species !

We didn't waste any time getting to know the life history O. alexandrea; but, then again that's a butterfly.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Paul K »

eurytides wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:06 pm All these female specimens and yet no one has taken the time to get eggs and rear. We still don’t know the life history of this species, which isn’t even that rare.
Peter Mollmaan who lives in Bolivia also known from YouTube Chanel pedromariposa tried to rear them. He obtained eggs from few females but his attempt failed.
Young caterpillars refused to eat many different type of plants that were suggested as possible food plant.
Few started to feed but shortly after died.

Indeed the species is common. I my self encountered only one specimen in French Guiana while moth collecting but I was at the end of the pic season for Thysania.
Last edited by Paul K on Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Trehopr1 »

Fasinating information Paul K.
I've never heard anything about breeding attempts !

Must have been a BIG thrill to see this species arrive
at your light sheets.

Do you think you could post us a picture of this personal
grand capture ?

How exactly does one even grasp this moth when its
wings are outstretched ? Best to net it then grasp and
inject ?
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Paul K »

Trehopr1 wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:48 pm
Must have been a BIG thrill to see this species arrive
at your light sheets.

Do you think you could post us a picture of this personal
grand capture ?
I don’t have a photo as I didn’t collect it. It was worn specimen and I let it go ( most likely it became a meal for birds next morning ) . I do have video clip but it’s recorded on VHS tape and I never had the chance to transfer to more recent format.

My specimen was purchased 6 years later at the Toronto insect fair which was organized for many years by Ken Thorne. Suddenly the fair was not profitable anymore and he discontinued and no one else attempt to organize anything these days.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by eurytides »

Here are the first instar larvae

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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by bobw »

You would think that a moth of this sort of wingspan would be badly damaged after just its maiden flight. There now seem to be a lot of perfect specimens on the market so I assumed that they must be captive-bred. It comes as rather a surprise that the foodplant is not known!
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by radusho »

They are not captive bred, but on several occasions massive cocoons were collected so a mumber of them was available ex pupa. Also depending on luck they probably hatch in clusters so one is able to attract om light a good quantity of freshly hatched specimens
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by Chuck »

It's amazing that such a huge species, known for a long time, and rather common, has a larval host that is unknown.

It's not like it's only found in remote areas, so presumably people would stumble across the larvae. That said, sometimes all it takes is asking- I caught a graphium and asked my bush guide what the larvae ate, and he pointed to the tree. He knew. Apparently nobody had bothered to ask.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by kevinkk »

It's probably a tricky caterpillar, don't most Noctuid larva feed at night as well?
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by livingplanet3 »

Chuck wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:16 pm It's amazing that such a huge species, known for a long time, and rather common, has a larval host that is unknown...
To my knowledge, the larval host of another very large lepidopteran, Papilio antimachus, and even the larvae themselves, are still unknown to science. I believe the same may be true of Papilio zalmoxis, as well? I've never seen a photo of the larva of either of these African species.
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Re: Does anyone have a bigger one? I mean an agrippina

Post by adamcotton »

livingplanet3 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:13 pm
Chuck wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:16 pm It's amazing that such a huge species, known for a long time, and rather common, has a larval host that is unknown...
To my knowledge, the larval host of another very large lepidopteran, Papilio antimachus, and even the larvae themselves, are still unknown to science. I believe the same may be true of Papilio zalmoxis, as well? I've never seen a photo of the larva of either of these African species.
Yes, that is correct to my knowledge. Not only are the larvae of both species unknown but also the food plants. These two species are not actually closely related to each other. Adults of Papilio antimachus are known to store poisonous carotinoids, presumably derived from whatever plant the larvae feed on.

Adam.
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