Consul panariste

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Jshuey
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by Jshuey »

kevinkk wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:40 am A lot of shiny butterflies that don't need image manipulation. I agree the subject specimen looks fake. That is it is a fake photo of a real insect,
It's just like the way people are manipulated in advertising in one respect, A little vasaline on the lens and mood lighting, and you're a model.
Fake is fake and if it's fake, there's no other way to look at it, it's an impossibility and just like repro art has little value other than eye candy,
I think the natural world does well enough without being manipulated. I recall there were some hi-res images posted some time back that were
some kind of layering , if I recall that correctly, those images are/were in a different class deserving some merit.
Although- I suppose your model doesn't always cooperate, I tried a few times this last season to get some of those great shots, and just before
closing in, the butterfly decided to fly off, hey! I just want a picture. Next time you'll come home in a jar and then we'll see.

I don't think this is a clear-cut fake photo. It looks a lot like a bug that is lapping up putrid fish juice off a leaf - like the 20 or so other photos of the species on Luis M. Constantin's Flickr page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/140413390@N06/ . That said - it is posed in an odd position - almost as if it were spread. But Anaeini flash this pose regularly - albeit very quickly - as they walk around and I've seen it many times on the sides of traps. It takes a lucky shot to catch them in the millisecond that are flattened out. Take a look at the proboscis and the antennae - which are definitely on a live bug.

That said - I do think the colors in the photo are manipulated to increase saturation. First - it looks like the photo is either in direct bright sunlight or taken with an offset flash. The yellow seems too warm - almost orange, and the blue is almost purple. The over exposure of the HWs is due to the intense iridescence from sun or flash - and if you have never been to the tropics, it's amazing how iridescent bugs can be in direct tropical sun.

John
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58chevy
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by 58chevy »

The shadows give it away as a photo of the butterfly dropped onto a leaf background. There should be shadows below the tails, the right forewing, and the antennae. A Photoshop clipping path was cut around the butterfly. It would have been more convincing had they used the dropshadow function in Photoshop, but they didn't. As a former Photoshop user, these omissions are red flags.
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by wollastoni »

livingplanet3 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:37 pm
jhyatt wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:39 pm Speaking of faked photos, my pet peeve is one I keep seeing in ads -- a male Morpho didius sitting on a flower. Bugs me to death!

jh
Also - this, does not happen -

https://mymodernmet.com/kelvin-hudson-b ... y-picture/

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https://kelvinhudson.com/animals
@livingplanet3 : each time you see this fake picture on the social network, you can send this Collector's Secret article explaining why this "live" picture is an artwork with spread buterflies : Kelvin Hudson fake morpho picture
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by livingplanet3 »

wollastoni wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:04 pm @livingplanet3 : each time you see this fake picture on the social network, you can send this Collector's Secret article explaining why this "live" picture is an artwork with spread buterflies : Kelvin Hudson fake morpho picture
https://collector-secret.com/blog/histo ... vin-hudson
Many thanks. Hudson probably should have explained that the photo was indeed staged, but I suppose that would have completely taken away the "magic" of the image that he put so much effort into creating (or rather, hoaxing). Regardless of the fact that the specimens are a commercially farmed product, most people of course aren't going to want to hear that these are actually dried, preserved butterflies. I'm sure that the vast majority of the general public isn't even aware that butterfly farms exist.
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Jshuey
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by Jshuey »

I'm just not buying it - that I really well known photographer and biologist with this many photos on his web page if the bug in question "fakes it".

John

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kevinkk
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by kevinkk »

Clearly while many animal images are staged, John's litany of images lends credibility to the original suspect photo, photos like the flood of Morphos should be explained as staged.
If, and I know how old some of us are- you remember Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, there is a prime example of why staging should be made more
clear. We all now know that lemmings do not commit suicide, and in today's society, tossing adversarial animals in proximity would probably be
frowned upon or worse.
I'd take a wild guess a say that if you spend enough time in the field with a camera, you're going to see a lot of unusual situations, and things not
normally witnessed.
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livingplanet3
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by livingplanet3 »

Jshuey wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:24 pm I'm just not buying it - that I really well known photographer and biologist with this many photos on his web page if the bug in question "fakes it".
Well, I'd really not suspected that fakery was involved in Constantino's C. panariste photo, and as stated in my original post, I'd just wondered if perhaps the colors had been artificially enhanced somewhat.

Hudson's photo depicting a huge cluster of M. didius of course, is on a whole other, incomparable level.
kevinkk wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:06 am Clearly while many animal images are staged, John's litany of images lends credibility to the original suspect photo, photos like the flood of Morphos should be explained as staged.
If, and I know how old some of us are- you remember Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, there is a prime example of why staging should be made more
clear. We all now know that lemmings do not commit suicide, and in today's society, tossing adversarial animals in proximity would probably be
frowned upon or worse...
Marlin Perkins was likely not the first to stage wildlife footage, and was certainly not the last. Bill Burrud was doing it in the 1970s, and then Marty Stouffer in the 1980s.
kevinkk wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:06 am ...I'd take a wild guess a say that if you spend enough time in the field with a camera, you're going to see a lot of unusual situations, and things not
normally witnessed.
True, but if a wildlife photographer just happens to stumble upon unique and unusual scenarios (a bear fighting an alligator, for example) too often, it does seem rather suspicious.

By the way, here's a Photoshopped, hue-shifted Dasymutilla occidentalis -

Image

Natural color -

Image
Last edited by livingplanet3 on Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by Entom2022 »

The best live photo of Consul panariste that exists and that I have achieved is this one with its wings fully open, difficult to obtain with this species. The metallic dark blue shine is real and is only achieved with specimens that are fresh, using a digital camera with flash, iso 200 and macro lens, with a little color saturation to enhance the shine on the wings. The specimen was baited with decomposed liquid fish sprayed in the understory. I add another photo of the same specimen with the wings closed. By the way, thanks John for your post about my photos on Flickr.
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Consul panariste with wings closed
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Consul panariste with wings open
Consul panariste with wings open
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by livingplanet3 »

Entom2022 wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:52 pm The best live photo of Consul panariste that exists and that I have achieved is this one with its wings fully open, difficult to obtain with this species. The metallic dark blue shine is real and is only achieved with specimens that are fresh, using a digital camera with flash, iso 200 and macro lens, with a little color saturation to enhance the shine on the wings. The specimen was baited with decomposed liquid fish sprayed in the understory. I add another photo of the same specimen with the wings closed. By the way, thanks John for your post about my photos on Flickr...
Many thanks for the explanation of the methods used in achieving these images, Luis; your photos are outstanding! Indeed, I had suspected that this must be a very fresh C. panariste specimen, for the iridescence to be so brilliant.
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by kevinkk »

This has been very interesting. I also have looked this insect up on eBay, and don't need to worry about possessing one$.
I will begin my leaf mimics with something less expensive.
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by livingplanet3 »

kevinkk wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:46 pm This has been very interesting. I also have looked this insect up on eBay, and don't need to worry about possessing one$.
I will begin my leaf mimics with something less expensive.
Coenophlebia archidona is a great one to have; one of the largest of the Neotropical leaf mimics, rather commonly available, and affordable -

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Re: Consul panariste

Post by Entom2022 »

I was not very convinced about the debate of what you interpret or consider as a fake photograph. So from your point of view, all scientific photos are fake, all extreme macro photos are fake, all artistic photos are fake, all scanning electron microscopy photos, and preserved and dissected insects photos are also fake ?????
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Re: Consul panariste

Post by Trehopr1 »

That very much sounds like you are spoiling for a fight here new member.

Tell me were you incensed at the very thought that members scrutinized your photograph having their doubts ?

Scrutiny, is what we do here. It is an ever present part of this hobby or pastime. Photos are scrutinized, quotes are highlighted boldly, and corrections about misconceptions are forwarded.

I was comfortable to leave your last statement alone. You said, that your photograph was not photoshopped and that the specimen in the photograph was a fresh example. You also admitted that you used a flash to capture the moment (which is what Adam suggested); and you further admitted to "a little color saturation to enhance the shine on the wings".

So there you have it. Your photograph was still "tweaked" a touch for enhancement. This is what I originally suggested in my own post by saying that I believe fully 1/3 of all digitized photographs have been tweaked by those who take them.

I think the photographs you see here posted are far more accurate than what you'll ever see in most any nature photograph. We are not photographers here generally. Most of us (I believe) pull out whatever type of iPhone we may have and bang off a picture somewhere near the closest fluorescent light we can find. Then we send it to the computer and spank it out in the forum.

If you were incensed by any one members remarks then please direct your remarks to that one member and they can answer you at their discretion.
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