Agrias butterflies

Share the gems of your insect collection with the InsectNet community
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by wollastoni »

hewi wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:17 am it is the typical Agrias sahlkei sahlkei of French Guiana and the Obidos region in Brazil.

A. sahlkei sahlkei Guyane franc. - Kopie.JPG
This specimen must be the most perfect Agrias sahlkei I have ever seen. Congrats Manfred !
BTW I have a lot of Agrias sahlkei from Obidos and they do look different than the one from FG. I have a serie of them with blue FW (represented also in Floquet's books), does this blue form exist in FG ?
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by wollastoni »

livingplanet3 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:31 am I've been looking for a specimen of this particular form for quite some time, but have never seen one for sale.
There are some available now, see on Collector's Secret : https://www.collector-secret.com/insect ... fly/agrias
User avatar
livingplanet3
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 4:55 pm
United States of America

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by livingplanet3 »

wollastoni wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:03 am
livingplanet3 wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:31 am I've been looking for a specimen of this particular form for quite some time, but have never seen one for sale.
There are some available now, see on Collector's Secret : https://www.collector-secret.com/insect ... fly/agrias
Many thanks for the link!
User avatar
hewi
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 8:44 pm
Germany

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by hewi »

wollastoni wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:57 am
BTW I have a lot of Agrias sahlkei from Obidos and they do look different than the one from FG. I have a serie of them with blue FW (represented also in Floquet's books), does this blue form exist in FG ?
Yes, the forms with blue in the forewing and hindwing also occur in French Guiana.
Le Moult described a lot of these forms in 1925.
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by wollastoni »

Thanks a lot, Manfred.
User avatar
livingplanet3
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 4:55 pm
United States of America

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by livingplanet3 »

I don't have very many hybrid butterflies, but I recently obtained this nice pair of Agrias c. lugens X Agrias b. lachaumei, captive-bred (Satipo, Peru), which I chose from a sampling of around ten pairs -

Agrias c. lugens X Agrias b. lachaumei (hybrid) (M).jpg
Agrias c. lugens X Agrias b. lachaumei (hybrid) (M).jpg (281.98 KiB) Viewed 440 times
Agrias c. lugens X Agrias b. lachaumei (hybrid) (F).jpg
Agrias c. lugens X Agrias b. lachaumei (hybrid) (F).jpg (351.81 KiB) Viewed 440 times

I also have this Agrias b. lachaumei X Prepona dexamenus hybrid male, captive-bred (Satipo, Peru) -

Agrias b. lachaumei X Prepona dexamenus (hybrid)_1.jpg
Agrias b. lachaumei X Prepona dexamenus (hybrid)_1.jpg (206.53 KiB) Viewed 440 times
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by Trehopr1 »

Very nice indeed !

I too only very recently purchased three captive bred hybrids. I have yet to spread them. I know I have at least one of those lachaumei/dexamenus males.

I'm going to give Olivier's vodka relaxation method a go on mine. If luck is with me I too will have some nice specimens to share here.
Chuck
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by Chuck »

Do agrias floresce flouresce florece however you spell it, under UV? Do they reflect other spectrums when observed at an angle, as some Troides do?
User avatar
livingplanet3
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 4:55 pm
United States of America

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by livingplanet3 »

Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:52 pm Very nice indeed !

I too only very recently purchased three captive bred hybrids. I have yet to spread them. I know I have at least one of those lachaumei/dexamenus males.
From the same dealer, I also got two male specimens of Agrias C. lugens X Prepona dexamenus. Here's an example of this hybrid -

Image
https://bruceblue.smugmug.com/Folder-of ... -wPggDpT/A
Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:52 pm I'm going to give Olivier's vodka relaxation method a go on mine. If luck is with me I too will have some nice specimens to share here.
I plan to try this method soon as well. Many of my Agrias were purchased pre-spread, so at least I won't have to worry about personally mounting those. The vast majority of my collection however (both Lepidoptera and Coleoptera), is not yet spread, so I'm really hoping that the vodka technique will work well for me also, and perhaps I can get all of my specimens prepared sooner rather than later!
User avatar
Trehopr1
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by Trehopr1 »

Now that one has always been ESPECIALLY striking with those blue bands in the forewings. It was also the first (I believe) captive bred hybrid produced for the hobbyist; perhaps four years ago.

However, I don't own one because it has always fetched pricing in the $200 plus range for anything exceptional.

I don't religiously watch the Agrias classifieds as I am generally not in the market for these financially but, in time I hope to acquire at least four or five more for diversity.
User avatar
livingplanet3
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 4:55 pm
United States of America

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by livingplanet3 »

Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:02 pm Now that one has always been ESPECIALLY striking with those blue bands in the forewings. It was also the first (I believe) captive bred hybrid produced for the hobbyist; perhaps four years ago.
True, it does seem that this particular hybrid only just appeared a few years ago; I can't recall having seen them prior to then. While the commercial production of Agrias and Prepona hybrids to supply collectors may be a relatively recent phenomenon, certainly, captive-bred hybrids have been around for a while now, with the following report from 2008 being one example -

http://www.troplep.org/TLR/18-1/Furtado-Hyb.pdf
Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:02 pm However, I don't own one because it has always fetched pricing in the $200 plus range for anything exceptional.

I don't religiously watch the Agrias classifieds as I am generally not in the market for these financially but, in time I hope to acquire at least four or five more for diversity.
The pricing on various captive-bred Agrias / Prepona hybrids has come down somewhat since they first entered the collector market, but yes - exceptional examples that have unusual colors / patterns do typically command rather high prices, especially large females. I've had to restrict myself to mostly specimens that are in the lower-to-medium range, but even these are still quite impressive. An advantage of these butterflies being produced in captivity of course, is that they have no flight wear.
User avatar
wollastoni
Site Admin
Site Admin
Reactions:
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:51 am
Location: France
France

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by wollastoni »

Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:52 pm I'm going to give Olivier's vodka relaxation method a go on mine
Be sure to practice on small Nymphalidae or Pieridae before trying on Agrias.
User avatar
livingplanet3
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue May 24, 2022 4:55 pm
United States of America

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by livingplanet3 »

wollastoni wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:18 pm
Trehopr1 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:52 pm I'm going to give Olivier's vodka relaxation method a go on mine
Be sure to practice on small Nymphalidae or Pieridae before trying on Agrias.
Absolutely - I will start with some common, low-value specimens before working with any important ones.
User avatar
hewi
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 8:44 pm
Germany

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by hewi »

there is a new subspecies of Agrias narcissus.
The Manaos region population has been separated from the nominate population A. narcissus narcissus from the Obidos and Guyana regions.
The new subspecies is called: Agrias narcissus chrysotaenia SÉRAPHIN, 2022. Gilles Séraphin took up the old form name chrystotaenia Fassl, 1924 for this, which, however, had no nomenclatural validity as a form name according to the international rules of nomenclature. A.narcissus chrysotaenia ssp. nov. therefore has Mr. Séraphin as author with the year of the first description 2022.
see: SÉRAPHIN, Gilles; Distribution d'Agrias narcissus dans le bas Amazone et description d'Agrias narcissus chrysotaenia ssp. nov. (Lepidoptera, Charaxinae, Preponini), ANTENOR, Volume 9(2), Dec. 2022, pp. 96-100, 3 fig. and 1 distribution map

here a female of the new subsprecies
narcissus chrysotaenia f.JPG
narcissus chrysotaenia f.JPG (586.12 KiB) Viewed 157 times
User avatar
hewi
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 8:44 pm
Germany

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by hewi »

and here a beautiful female variation of A.phalcidon phalcidon
P1000958.JPG
P1000958.JPG (725.35 KiB) Viewed 152 times
User avatar
Paul K
Junior Member
Junior Member
Reactions:
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 6:44 pm
Canada

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by Paul K »

I’m confused here, how the new subspecies can be named with invalid genus?
User avatar
adamcotton
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:24 pm
Location: Thailand
Thailand

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by adamcotton »

Paul K wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:21 pm I’m confused here, how the new subspecies can be named with invalid genus?
The original infrasubspecific name was described by Fassl in 1924, but that name has no standing under the ICZN Code, including not being a senior homonym, so when Séraphin described the new subspecies using the same name it is available (described as new) from Séraphin, 2022. Under the Code it is as if chrysotaenia Fassl, 1924 never existed at all.

Adam.

PS. If you were actually asking about the validity of the name chrysotaenia Séraphin, 2022 because genus Agrias is a synonym of Prepona, that is also irrelevant under the Code. The genus a name is described under doesn't have to be correct.
User avatar
hewi
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 8:44 pm
Germany

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by hewi »

Whether a genus is invalid or not depends on the approach of the author. For M. Séraphin and many others, Agrias is not a synonym of Prepona. These persons are not obliged to subscribe to a different view. They are free to express their point of view.
Chuck
Premium Member - 2023
Premium Member - 2023
Reactions:
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon May 23, 2022 2:30 pm
Solomon Islands

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by Chuck »

adamcotton wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:09 pm ... because genus Agrias is a synonym ... that is also irrelevant under the Code. The genus a name is described under doesn't have to be correct.
So if I describe a new species of swallowtail, and elect to use the specific name "lupus", I can randomly select an unused genus name, say "Cannis"? Or if I used "freitchikkeni" for the species, I can describe it with a new genus so I get "Kintukie freitchikkeni"?
User avatar
adamcotton
Global Moderators
Global Moderators
Reactions:
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:24 pm
Location: Thailand
Thailand

Re: Agrias butterflies

Post by adamcotton »

Chuck wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:48 pm Or if I used "freitchikkeni" for the species, I can describe it with a new genus so I get "Kintukie freitchikkeni"?
You would have to describe the genus name, either beforehand or at the same time as the species name. A species name described in a genus that has not actually been described is not an available name.

Adam.
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in