Hello. I might have a chance to collect some centipedes (mainly focusing on Geophilomorphs and Lithobiomorphs) in Pahang, Malaysia next year. I have read through the legislation covering collecting and exporting biological material and I plan to get in touch with the local branch of the Wildlife and Parks department to enquire about permits.
I will not be collecting in any National Parks or protected areas but I wanted to ask if anyone has had experience with collecting in peninsular Malaysia and safely and legally exporting material collected there. Is it possible to sort out permits and such paperwork without a local collaborator to help with the process? To my knowledge, legislation around collecting is much more lax than in Sarawak/Sabah and Indonesia but I couldn't find much. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hello. I am an undergraduate student from Romania but have been collecting centipedes for around 6 years now and am currently active in centipede taxonomy and systematics.

livingplanet3 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:01 pm Very interesting to read about these various experiences, perspectives and comments - a lot of useful information in this thread, for anyone considering a collecting trip to the tropics.

Really, a lot is applicable to USA as well. Aside from the permit & import element involved with international, the same risks and challenges exist. Then again, the permit issue DOES raise its head in USA with MILLIONS of acres of National Parks, National Monuments, State Parks, wildlife refuges, and even Native American reservations.

Jason D., at Cornell stated "your collection is your legacy" I'm not sure what good a bought and paid legacy is. Having valued a couple collections for donation purposes, I grow intimate with the collector through their personally captured specimens- I know where they went on vacation in 1976, I know when they got serious about collecting, I know which years during which they were at their peak. Some people collect refrigerator magnets to mark their travels but those go in the trash; an insect collection lives on, keeping the memory of that researcher alive.

Kevin, how in god's name does someone get robbed while conducting field work? What did you do, stumble into a pot field?

Very interesting to read about these various experiences, perspectives and comments - a lot of useful information in this thread, for anyone considering a collecting trip to the tropics. I myself have only ever traveled outside the US twice; both trips were to Australia, lasted around 6 weeks each time, and included a lot of road travel, but didn't actually involve insect collecting. That was around 25 years ago, and with the life changes that have come since that time, it's a bit hard for me to imagine making such long and involved excursions again. But, time will tell. If I do eventually visit a place such as Peru or French Guiana, it will certainly be much more focused on the experience itself, than bringing back any specimens. I already have far more specimens than I had ever intended to acquire, and I'm sure there are others on this forum who can say the same.

Uncertain, but it may be a nymph of the American cockroach (Periplaneta americana) -

https://bugguide.net/node/view/1254066

Over the years, I've used bait stations (large roach) to control this species, with considerable success. In my case, they seem to be more of a seasonal, intermittent problem, than a continuous one.

Thanks Adam, you're the best!

Let me reflect on age. I know a lot of collectors who, like me, planned to go "there" sometime "later." And they never got there. The reason is because by the time the travel became convenient they'd lost the ability.

International travel is brutally expensive (comparatively) when one is young. One trip could be 10% of 20% of the annual salary. And, being young generally brings some level of naivety- however, the young often learn fast.

Then life gets in the way.

Once you have a significant other/ spouse the challenges start: "why do you want to leave me? We could use the money for a house."

Then children. You going to leave the kids for two or three weeks? Leave them for the wife to care for? As a single father, my last three trips to Solomon Islands involved ZERO field work- I went there, did work work, and rushed back. Talk about a shame. This period of your life lasts 20-25 years. When you're done you will not be the same person as before.

All along, costs increase. House. Two cars. Insurance. Family vacations.

Now, with some free time, and some money, I suppose I could go overseas again. But guess what, I don't have the stamina to pull off the extended lack of sleep and physical abuse of field work for sustained periods. My friends in the Pacific clamor for me to come back, free lodging! And I'm sure I'd enjoy the trip, but sure as heck I'd not be the explorer I once was.

Go when you're young.

As recommended by Chuck, I moved all the posts below this one to a new topic called Global travel collecting at:

viewtopic.php?t=1554

Please continue that thread there rather than here, so posts about Agrias can continue in this thread.

Adam.

Chuck wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:55 pm This discussion on Agrias has evolved into an important topic on global travel collecting, I hope it's split out on its own.

I eventually managed to do as requested!

Adam.

Chuck wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:55 pm es, there are places to avoid. In USA, the red/blue voting map is a good start- stay out of red areas. The good thing is that there aren't many insects of interest in the red areas. These areas are largely urban areas, and the same rule applies elsewhere- avoid. This is, of course, dependent on the area. And I think John already stated: stay out of bars, strip joints, social demonstrations; and nothing good ever happens after 10pm.

I've been robbed twice in Oregon. In the field. I wouldn't set foot any where near Portland, or any other population center.

That being said, I do have wonderful memories of my trip to the Dominican Republic back in the 80's, it was a group organized by a Florida travel agency, advertised in the Lepidopterist's Society.

eurytides wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:30 am Keep an eye out for pipevine and zebra swallowtails.

They've both been flying in the mountains of Eastern TN for several weeks now, on the odd sunny warm days. But there's been a lot of cool, rainy weather that has kept numbers down.

jh

eurytides wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:30 am Keep an eye out for pipevine and zebra swallowtails.

Zebras should be flying in KY as soon as this storm front passes.

Pipevines fly in FL pretty much year round; certainly they are out and abundant by now.

Near Lake Ontario, I did see a Pieris rapae the last few days of March. Since then, nothing. We are one month from the emergency of the Papilio glaucus "spring form" and that's when my work starts- somewhat ironically, I just dug the last thorn from 2023 out of my thigh.

This discussion on Agrias has evolved into an important topic on global travel collecting, I hope it's split out on its own.

John Shuey's initial post on the topic is loaded with gold, and I'd advise any potential traveler to parse every sentence.

Global travel has never been easier. There are airfields virtually everywhere, thanks to WW2; the only country I can think of that doesn't have air service is Tokelau. You can book lodging almost anywhere directly; you can use satellite imagery to examine the immediate area. You can book a beat up rental vehicle in PNG from Joliet.

When and where to target particular taxa is at your fingertips; no more digging through piles of paper publications, no more letter writing just send email.

Note though, and to answer the OP question, targeting a specific taxon that's generally rare will be done at the cost of ignoring virtually everything else...and that everything else is where the real joy is; it's in finding species that are not commercially viable yet eye opening. As John said, don't go with a list- just go.

Now, I'm having trouble thinking of ANYTHING that's not more easily learned than when done with someone who's done it. The success rate of collecting in a foreign country is highly influenced by having a guide, be it a fellow collector and/or a local guide. This is not to say just showing up alone won't be wonderful- I've done it many times. But then I adapt to cultures quickly and make friends readily, so it's only days until I've hooked up with everyone I need.

I bring what I need- my favorite clothing, nets, envelopes, etc. When I leave, the nets, extra envelopes, ID guides, boots stay behind with young, aspiring commercial collectors. And guess who I call first when I get back in country, or an associate is going to visit that country.

On danger: there are two sources of danger with a common denominator: YOU.

Yes, there are places to avoid. In USA, the red/blue voting map is a good start- stay out of red areas. The good thing is that there aren't many insects of interest in the red areas. These areas are largely urban areas, and the same rule applies elsewhere- avoid. This is, of course, dependent on the area. And I think John already stated: stay out of bars, strip joints, social demonstrations; and nothing good ever happens after 10pm.

"The LIST" referred to is largely a joke. It's compiled by bureaucrats who've never even been to those countries. This list has elevated concerns for countries including Costa Rica, Germany, France, Belgium, etc. Go read the AUS warnings about USA, it's always good for entertainment. As for the "no go" countries like Afghanistan, if you don't know that you shouldn't go, what's there the say...

No, you don't want to run into a cocaine production facility in FARC territory in Colombia. Nor do you want to stumble across an illicit pot field in NY, a meth lab in rural KY, or a human coyote in southern AZ. That's where local guides can both avoid and extract from situations.

But so far as criminals go, the key denominator is YOU. Criminals evaluate risk vs reward, they aren't stupid. So don't increase their reward. Some tourists are an easy mark- gullible, scared, and influenced with the simplest suggestion. Being loud, flashy, and rich increases the reward. But so too does being arrogant, loud, and rude- that increases the SOCIAL reward for punishing cultural violations.

The non-human danger is environmental. Those who are outdoor oriented are at an advantage, even if the jungle is foreign to them. There are dangers- snakes, cliffs, things in the sea, storms. For those who are pansies, they're in for a world of hurt- better to take a cruise ship. Every day NYSDEC publishes a list of rescues in the Adirondack mountains, and my buddies and I laugh our butts off- every one is the same "from NYC area with inadequate clothing." Wait...these are the same mountains we hike, year-round. So really, it's not the environment, it's the individual...some people should just stay inside. But for those who have a bit of outdoor experience, and some common sense, the real dangers of the environment will be recognized and avoided.

One thing that really hasn't been brought up is patience. Developing countries are not on a schedule. If they get around to your permit today, or next Tuesday, is immaterial to them. If you're in a hurry, and start demanding, you'll have problems. If your ride shows up three hours late, well there's tomorrow- unless you're on a schedule. Expect delays, expect a two hour project to take five days. Be patient, and don't get upset. If you plan to jet to Panama for five days and think you'll achieve much, you'll be sorely disappointed. Further to that, most developing country people work on RELATIONSHIPS, and that takes time to develop.

Tropical collecting isn't about bringing home a dollar amount. From the worst perspective, if you're 25 and skip the trip and invest that $5000 for 40 years, it will be worth $51,500. Screw that. Save money elsewhere- don't buy Starbucks every day. An overseas collecting trip IS an investment- not in bugs, in YOU. "The Ugly American Tourist" - don't be that person. Get out, and see the world, experience other cultures, eat other foods, see different environments. SURE you may be scared, and you probably will get frustrated by the lack of speed/progress- this is building relationships and character. It's building a better you. If, like most Americans (and Canadians and Europeans) if you're afraid of spiders and guns and sharks, maybe you won't be when you're done. You'll learn to appreciate the miracle of the flush toilet. You'll learn that indeed you can get by without electricity. And likely you'll sneer at the tourist that complains about having to sit in the airplane center seat for 90 minutes, because you'll know that inconvenience is trivial.

You want to watch TV the rest of your life, stay home. Mow your little lawn, buy your bugs online. Or get out, and build a better you.

Keep an eye out for pipevine and zebra swallowtails.

My advice is if you don’t use local organizers like Amazon insects in Peru or Amazon Lodge in French Guiana who will take care of you right at the airport, rent the car at the airport of your destination.
You’ll feel comfortable, safe and have shelter just in case you end up having no place to sleep. You will also be mobile to search for good collecting spots and you won’t be exposed to potential predators, local people are usually friendly but you don’t want to end up face to face with the bad guy in the forest. Keep your eyes open and stay alert.

I can only agree with John’s posts!
If you don’t go collecting in tropics you don’t live your life.

Today April 10 another warm day and I saw Vanessa atalanta, this species can not overwinter here in south Ontario and it migrates from south usually at the end of spring. I have never seen them here so early, it could be a good year for migrating species as the warmer than normal weather maybe allow them to fly longer distance to the north.

As a follow-up, It's not all that expensive to get to the tropics from the US. If you split the costs with someone, I bet you can do a week for about $1,200 to Central America with good advance planning. I just did a 11 day vacation in Panama for 2 people, for around $3k (including airfare for 2) - and that was eating well (lots of seafood), staying in nice places my wife found acceptable, doing tourist things, renting a car, etc. A nice place in the canal zone, completely surrounded by rain forest (and a golf course ) was $50/night, breakfast included. Trails though the forest, and permission to collect. And if I had been on my own and able to collect dawn to dusk, lots of logging roads a few m iles away that would have been outstanding. Bug me, and me and I can point you towards a permit. (It was super dry and collecting was marginal - but that's a reflection of our narrow travel window).

Belize is easy as well - and English speaking! Again - AirBnbs in the bush would be the way to go. If you are just collecting, all you need is a kitchen, bathroom, beds and electricity - right? Hot shower - hit and miss! Eat local and you may spend 15 bucks a day (rice and beans, stew chicken, and beans and rice!). The odds of hitting Agrias are low, but you never know (two species, and I can point you to spots for both). It's all about planning ahead, getting your permit lined up ($100US), and then just getting there!

Puerto Rico - can be equally cheap. We are pondering a trip to the south coast beaches right now.

You just have to take the first step and do it! It will give you memories that last a lifetime!

John

Over the past few weeks, apart from various nymphalids and pierids, I've also been seeing P. polyxenes, P. glaucus, P. cresphontes, and B. philenor in North TX. We've been having a somewhat wetter spring here than usual, and rather mild weather with no significant, sudden changes in temperature.

Saw my 1st butterfly of 2024 here in NE Sask. today, 10th April... an overwintering Mourning Cloak (N. antiopa) basking in the sunshine, (+13.0 C = 56 F), in a secluded spot in my yd.. No spring emergent spp. yet....not until late April - early May. Very early spring here...hardly any snow left to melt.. Turned on one B.L. trap for the 1st time last night & had 7 specimens of 3 spp. of noctuid moths in it that regularly show up every year in early spring.... but not normally this early. Looks to be the start of an abnormally warm, early spring... perhaps drought coming...

John K.

Hi Tim,

It’s been a while and welcome Back. And congratulations!!!!

First, I personally can’t imagine just building a collection made up of purchased specimens. Yep – I purchase bugs from places I can’t get to, but I treasure the bugs I’ve caught myself. If I had a couple of thousand bucks to spend on bugs, it’s not even close how the experience of being in the field compares to opening a dealer’s shipment. It’s life enrichening versus transactional.

And don’t be intimidated by inflated stories of danger. You can choose to be scared of life, or you can choose to embrace life. Big cities in Latin America can be dangerous in every country. And some places – like Venezuela – I’d be very cautious about. Just follow basic rules of safety – but most importantly, don’t act and look like a victim. Cheap watch, wallet always in your front pocket, conservative clothing, stay out of bars, and so on. Basically, be one with the country you are visiting. And speak basic local languages – enough to get by at minimum. (Google translate is great by the way – but not always available). Join a facebook expat community for a few countries, just to see what expats are chatting about. Interestingly, usually not about crime (even in Ecuador as of late). Or you can watch Fox news or Newsmax, and live your life in fear. If that describes you – then stay out of the tropics! You will see danger at every turn.

At a basic level, people in Latin America are very warm and friendly. Much more so that in the US. And I base this on almost 50 trips though rural Central America, the Caribbean and Brasil. You just need to be respectful of culture and traditions. As long as you don’t act like a wealthy, entitled, ignorant gringo, then you will be fine.

It certainly would be awesome to collect some myself but I'm honestly not sure all that would entail. A few questions someone here may be able to answer:
1. I'm sure there are certain South American countries more friendly to collecting (not Brazil, lol), what are the best options?
It’s more about permits than anything else nowadays. FG of course is great – but hard to get to from the US. And there are guides with solid reviews out there for Peru. But with 6 months advance planning, you can get permits to many countries – you just have to know how. (The Skeptical Moth web site is a great place to start). And no country is impossible – I pulled off a Brazil Permit a few years back, but it took a few years of advance prep to lay the ground-work.

If you want a easy entry to the tropics, try Puerto Rico – no permit or import paperwork required.

2. How does one go about finding a collecting spot in a foreign country and a local connection?
This is what the Lep groups are all about. Go to a Tropical Leps Soc meeting and meet some people. Same for the Lep Soc. There are people here in the US that have permits and are looking for “volunteers” in the field, especially if you are covering your own expenses.

As to finding easy spots to collect – If I'm headed someplace new, I use all the hotel and home rental sites to find accommodation, and then Google earth to see how they are situated relative to habitats. You can almost always find some reasonable tourist places next to forest. Hill-top homes with a “view” are great for light sheets. You just need to verify that the owners are ok with it (never had one say no to me yet).

3. What kind of import/export permits/paperwork would a collecting trip require. Do you ship your specimens back or carry them with you?
3-177 forms filled out and filed in advance – with a permit of course. I carry them personally, because either way, they are probably going to get inspected, and as long as you have the paperwork in hand, it remans in your control.

4. Is it better to travel with collecting equipment, or ship it there, or buy/make it there? I'm thinking of bait traps, lights and nets.
Carry it. If you ship, you will be charged duty – which I did once and was stunned. If you need to, it’s cheaper to check an extra bag. But I can get everything I need into a 60-inch roll-along that weighs under 50 pounds (plus a carry on back-pack). 60-inches because my telescoping net handle fits inside it. Take all “essential gear” with you. If you try and make it, you are losing valuable collecting time! There is never enough time for the field! I get panicky when I'm doing something stupid while surrounded by bugs flying everywhere. Every second counts!

FYI - I generally buy new “used” field clothing at a second-hand store for serious trips. Rinse the clothing out at the end of the trip and leave it behind. It may or may not get a third life in the local community. This frees up weight and space for the trip home. And remember, you can purchase almost any supply you need once you are in country.

5. How safe would it be to embark on such a trip as a single individual?
Been there – done it – still alive. Mexico, Brasil and Belize. Honestly, I always feel safer in these counties than I do in the rural SE US. But if you do your first trip solo, then I would scope of hotels that are surrounded by enough forest to satisfy your needs and stick close by.

I personally suggest finding someone to split costs with, so that you can rent a car, share a room, split guide costs, and feel safe together. Your first trip to the tropics is intense and new, and I’d want someone responsible along with me, just to take the adrenaline edge off! Remember, it’s not just people you need to be wary of. Snakes come to mind (Although that threat is also overstated by most people). It takes a while to get comfortable enough to go solo.

6. For something like Agrias, how likely is it that you would even collect any while there?
You can never go to the tropics with a “must collect” list. If you do, it will break your heart. But if you take 5-10 bait traps and use them well in the hopes of getting Agrias, you will for certain get owl butterflies, Prepona, Memphis, Archeoprepona, Morpho, Catenephele, and so much more. And that is why it is such a thrill. You honestly never know what you will see next. Assuming you are there in the rainy season, you should come home with 3-500 species after a week! (or more!)

John