It's either AI, or it's Voodoo.

Try some better synthetic clothing. My first impression is that there is something other than an insect at work. Your efforts at abatement seem
quite extensive, and I am having trouble envisioning the moth conspiracy which is plaguing you.

MonaLisa wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:11 am

Any other ideas?Everything I’ve experienced has gone against received wisdom around moths. For example, they've eaten synthetics, holes have in some cases appeared within 48 hours of me wearing a brand new cotton item. 

Is this AI?

Are you from California or Oregon?

Do you smoke or weld?

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the quick reply... I think you are correct... looks like a good match. I sent the same photos to another fellow who is writing a new book on SK butterflies; the last SK butterfly book was published in 1976 & is really outdated, & he came to the same conclusion. Checkerspots are extremely variable, even within a local population, & this one just has really enhanced white ventral markings. I think there are something like 24 named ssp. of E. anicia alone! I have a good series of these & this one female just stood out from all of the more "normal" looking females (like the one you showed). Thanks again!

John K.

Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:59 pm

nikiahloch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:18 pm

When your at the airport. If you have to go to customs. The person I talked to with USFW said that in most cases. They will just ask if they are dead or alive. This is a topic they deal with all the time, that's what they said to me.

Which airport? Who is "they"?

Anything USFWS tells you is worthless. Get it in writing, and identified as to who wrote it. USFWS personnel once told me an import was OK, but apparently it wasn't, and the only thing that saved me was that I had kept copious notes- names, dates, times and exact words.

GO READ THE LAWS. This is so stupid we always go round-and-round here with "somebody said."


The other question is Vietnam wildlife export laws.

The airport in the US. I'm flying back from Vietnam to California. I live in the United States. "They" is the custom officials at the airport. I have an email from the agent that told me this info. So I have plenty of evidence of what they said. I did read the laws. I just decided to actually talk to someone about it.

Hi everyone! I have truly tried everything to rid myself of clothes moths, specifically Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella. And when I say everything, I mean everything. Tune in if you have expertise in this field and / or to read about my escapade and adventures in the name of banishing clothes moths from my life. It's a page turner...

An entomologist saw my moth trap in September 2023 and confirmed I have both Tineola Bisselliella and Monopis Crocicapitella.

To give you the quickest overview possible I’ve truly tried everything to get rid of them.

Here’s some high-level background:

From October 2022 until September 2023, I lived in a house that had a bad moth infestation.

In September 2023, I got rid of literally every single thing that I owned, and kept only two passports, a laptop, and a cell phone, in the hope of getting rid of the moths once and for all. I was moving to the east coast and decided it was worth the sacrifice of stuff (which I didn't have that much of) if I could be moth-free.

Unfortunately, no luck. I got rid of my possessions and over a seven week period, I lived in three different hotels, where I changed rooms every three days. During this time I also bought entirely new clothes every three days (I mean every item — from shoes, to bag to underwear, jacket and socks) and discarded the previous set.After this period, I thought I was in the clear. But after two weeks of living a normal life (staying in one place and keeping the same set of clothes) holes appeared after about seven days.

In the following experiment which lasted two months I introduced the following: I also treated my hair with anti-lice shampoo that contained pyrethrins and sprayed each set of clothes with a 0.5% Permethrin spray.

Here’s a deeper dive on almost everything I’ve tried to get rid of the moths over the past year and a half:

The day before I flew to NYC, I bought brand new clothes, bags, shoes (everything) before my flight. I moved into a sublet that was definitely moth-free. But a couple of days later I found holes in my brand new items.

I then went traveling in North America. I moved hotel rooms every three days and bought a new outfit every time I moved to a new room and discarded the previous outfit. After seven weeks of doing this — I still found holes.At this point, nothing made sense.

To recap: I was changing my entire wardrobe every three days and I was staying in moth-free apartments or hotel rooms that I was moving out of every three days. I know moths aren’t meant to dwell on hair or skin, but I suspected that they must be living somewhere in my body.

So I embarked on a new two month experiment. I added permethrins to the mix. For the next two months, I used anti-lice shampoo in my hair, smeared 5% permethrin cream on my body, and regularly blow dried my hair, knowing the high heat kills eggs  — just in case.

I was also still moving hotel rooms and changing my wardrobe every three days. And, I’d also read that bed bugs can find a home in electronics. There’s no evidence to suggest that’s the case with my moths, but I wanted to be as careful as possible, so I left my laptop at work during this entire period of three months. I also got Bell Environmental to apply their InstantFreeze, usually used to kill bedbugs hiding in electronics, to my laptop.

By this point, I thought I must be moth-free, so I let down my guard. However, again after two weeks of not swapping out my clothes and accommodation every three days, I found seven moth holes in a shirt and bag. I was in high-end hotels at the time and I am confident that they were moth-free. So at this point, I’m at a loss. It’s been more than a year and a half, I’ve invested thousands of dollars in trying to get rid of the moths, as well as countless hours of research… and nothing has worked.

What I’d like to try now:

Is there a machine with a magnifying glass powerful enough to scan my laptop, passports — the three things I can’t get rid of — to see if that’s where the moth eggs are living? And/or a machine to scan my hair and skin for moth eggs? Essentially, I would like to know for sure, where the moth eggs are being carried.

Any other ideas?Everything I’ve experienced has gone against received wisdom around moths. For example, they've eaten synthetics, holes have in some cases appeared within 48 hours of me wearing a brand new cotton item. 

If anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. And I’d also really appreciate any resources or research you could send my way that might help point me in the right direction.

Many thanks!

nikiahloch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:18 pm

When your at the airport. If you have to go to customs. The person I talked to with USFW said that in most cases. They will just ask if they are dead or alive. This is a topic they deal with all the time, that's what they said to me.

Which airport? Who is "they"?

Anything USFWS tells you is worthless. Get it in writing, and identified as to who wrote it. USFWS personnel once told me an import was OK, but apparently it wasn't, and the only thing that saved me was that I had kept copious notes- names, dates, times and exact words.

GO READ THE LAWS. This is so stupid we always go round-and-round here with "somebody said."


The other question is Vietnam wildlife export laws.

I don't know if the US law has changed in the past 17 years.

Adam.

A US visitor once told me that 'according to the law' dead insects for personal use can be brought into the US in accompanied luggage. Possibly the owner needs to file a 3-177 after arrival home. Apparently the law for luggage is different to parcels, according to the visitor.

Adam.

Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:15 pm

nikiahloch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:35 am but most of the time there's not permits required and most will let you walk through as long as they are dead and you aren't bringing endangered or protected species

Who will let you walk through, and where? Is that after or without informing in/out customs?

When your at the airport. If you have to go to customs. The person I talked to with USFW said that in most cases. They will just ask if they are dead or alive. This is a topic they deal with all the time, that's what they said to me.

Very nice captures indeed Billg !

Yep, they look fresh hatch. Not strays....

Don't know of anyone else who has encountered the species here in Illinois so, those may be important examples. I suppose if I ever get to the Natural History survey in Champaign I will look to see if there are any examples there.

nikiahloch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:35 am but most of the time there's not permits required and most will let you walk through as long as they are dead and you aren't bringing endangered or protected species

Who will let you walk through, and where? Is that after or without informing in/out customs?

So as far as i can see, mauensis orange form female became the dominant form for aurantiaca immaculatus and so on.

Here’s that pic.

Both were nearly A1, came to my sugared trees and, imo, freshly eclosed. I’ll have to get out a pic later.

I'd try looking at where inaturalist records are in June.

Or try reaching out to Norbert Kondla who is a local collector. You can find his info on inaturalist, he post a lot of specimens.

I don't think you will find a better name than bernadetta, every population has extreme examples.

Compare with this one

Hello all... need some help please,

I've been going through/rearranging/updating my SK butterfly list, based on my collection, & have no clue as to this unidentified Checkerspot.... it is a female that was collected in Canada, SW Saskatchewan, in the Cypress Hills, (very close to the Alberta border), on 04 July 1991. It's ventral surface is so different than the other 2 ssp. I have - Euphydryas a. anicia & E. a. bernadetta (even though it looks like E. a. bernadetta on the dorsal side)....




Thanks in advance!! John K.

Chuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:46 am

nikiahloch wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:53 am

I sent an email to the Vietnam Department of Agriculture and still haven't heard back from them and that was 8 months ago, I leave the 30th of this month. I've contacted the US Department of Agriculture and even talked to someone and they said I don't need permits for importing dead insects in the US. I think at this point its a matter of hoping for the best.

Most foreign organizations don't have or won't take the time to respond. They leave it to you and/or your local agent to arrange.

USDA has nothing to do with dead insects, they only oversee live insects. Dead insects fall under USFWS.

One does not want to run afoul of Vietnamese officials. Getting caught on the way out with dead insects and no paperwork is going to be, at the least, expensive.

If one elects to "wing it", which I have as sometimes it's the only option, the best approach upon arriving in a foreign country is to find a local who knows the laws and officials, and can help get a permit. Even better is to make contact with a knowledgeable person in VN BEFORE going. Hoping to do it yourself in-country may not be effective, and will cost a fortune in bribe money.

Very true. I did talk to the USFW and they said I may need a 3177 form. To have one just in case but most of the time there's not permits required and most will let you walk through as long as they are dead and you aren't bringing endangered or protected species

Hey Tim, we're the same age so I figured id pop in and give some of my thoughts.

Collecting wise, the easiest way to get permits in SA is to have a university endorsement. So my suggestion is find where you want to go based on permit requirements, then find a research institute, station or park ranger station etc in the local you want. Then call them up or email them and ask if they can provide housing for researchers.

For most of the travel I do for collecting I usually find a research or biological station that accepts volunteers. These stations have housing for the volunteers usually and if they have space they will allow you to stay there - usually free of cost. Often times they also have a kitchen for food preparation.

In South America if you're eating rice and beans then your food cost is likely to be under 10$ a day. Flights to places like CR (where I just returned from) are 500-600$ round trip. So you could totally do a south american collecting trip for a month and do it for less than 1000$

The biggest challenge for you would be language barrier unless you speak fluent Spanish.

While I was in costa rica I was able to find short term jobs that paid/housed me and balance that out with free housing stays in a few national parks/conservation areas. In the end the trip cost came out to a net <1K for 5 months. You can see more about this trip on my IG @ed_tomologist and probably on my blog soon too!

Start planning now and next Fall you could be collecting in the tropics.