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Topic: WSJ Article re African Leps | Author: biscuit153 | Replies: 6 | Views: 123
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Re: WSJ Article re African Leps

by Cabintom » Mon Nov 04, 2024 4:33 am

Chuck wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:19 am God knows what important future discoveries they'd leave behind.
Exactly. The collection contains a surprising number of undescribed species. Steve's also been actively trying to recruit folks to take interest in describing the things.
Topic: WSJ Article re African Leps | Author: biscuit153 | Replies: 6 | Views: 123
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Re: WSJ Article re African Leps

by Chuck » Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:19 am

Stupid that no institution wants to pay to ship the entire collection. They want to cherry pick; God knows what important future discoveries they'd leave behind. I wonder if any institutional collections managers have an eye for the actually undiscovered.
Topic: WSJ Article re African Leps | Author: biscuit153 | Replies: 6 | Views: 123
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Re: WSJ Article re African Leps

by Cabintom » Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:21 pm

Steve's research collection is likely the most comprehensive collection of African butterflies in the world. It contains many holotypes and many examples of species only found in his collection and one or two others. His library is also excellent. His (and the collection's) contributions to scientific publications are innumerable. He's opened his doors to many researchers (and amateurs like myself) over the years and granted them free access to pour over the hundreds of boxes. I really do hope an appropriate custodian is found, lining up with his desire for the specimens to always be available for students and researchers alike.
Topic: Tiny white bugs in my teak cabinet | Author: sgbuyer | Replies: 4 | Views: 114
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Re: Tiny white bugs in my teak cabinet

by adamcotton » Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:02 am

If they are Psocids (but they don't look quite like those) then they would certainly be associated with mould and damp, since they eat fungal mycelia and cannot tolerate dry conditions.

Adam.
Topic: Tiny white bugs in my teak cabinet | Author: sgbuyer | Replies: 4 | Views: 114
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Re: Tiny white bugs in my teak cabinet

by sgbuyer » Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:56 am

Borearctia wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 9:38 am Looks like a mite infestation
The first thing I would do is check the food supplies in the kitchen.
Good luck!
Thank you! I read this is something to do with moulds or dampness?
Topic: WSJ Article re African Leps | Author: biscuit153 | Replies: 6 | Views: 123
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Re: WSJ Article re African Leps

by Borearctia » Sun Nov 03, 2024 3:31 am

"Behind a paywall unfortunately."


without paywall:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/he ... r-AA1tnVuj
Topic: WSJ Article re African Leps | Author: biscuit153 | Replies: 6 | Views: 123
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Re: WSJ Article re African Leps

by eurytides » Sat Nov 02, 2024 10:56 pm

Behind a paywall unfortunately.
Topic: WSJ Article re African Leps | Author: biscuit153 | Replies: 6 | Views: 123
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WSJ Article re African Leps

by biscuit153 » Sat Nov 02, 2024 8:02 pm

I thought this article from the Wall Street Journal might be of interest to the group. I hope everyone is having a good weekend.

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/butterfly ... os2&page=1
Topic: Moth Survey of S. India | Author: 58chevy | Replies: 1 | Views: 61
Topic: Tiny white bugs in my teak cabinet | Author: sgbuyer | Replies: 4 | Views: 114
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Re: Tiny white bugs in my teak cabinet

by Borearctia » Sat Nov 02, 2024 9:38 am

Looks like a mite infestation
The first thing I would do is check the food supplies in the kitchen.
Good luck!
Topic: Tiny white bugs in my teak cabinet | Author: sgbuyer | Replies: 4 | Views: 114
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Tiny white bugs in my teak cabinet

by sgbuyer » Sat Nov 02, 2024 5:34 am

While cleaning an old teak cabinet, I noticed tiny white bugs of around 1mm in length crawling around. My cabinet also had some beans - kids toys. I've never seen these bugs before and they don't look like termites and are not silverfish where there are plenty in my home due to high humidity. My wife is spooking out, can anyone please tell me what these are and should I be concerned of an infestation? Thank you. :oops:

p/s: my apologies if the clip isn't clear, they are really tiny and this is the best my iphone 12 can capture.

Image
Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by jhyatt » Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:25 pm

Chuck wrote: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:53 pm When I awoke this morning I realized no, I do not need to bring my net. Field work is finished.
Not quite for me! I'm still seeing buckeyes, cloudless sulphurs, the occasional gulf frit, and, a few days ago, a dark Papilio (didn't get good enough a look to identify it - probably philenor, from the way it flew). Last night I ran moth light traps on a trail in nearby VA woods. Just retrieved them, and had a modest but nice catch of LBM's to sort and spread this afternoon. And Sunday we're off to the the GA coast, where a fair number of butterflies and moths will still be flying. But yes, it will all come to the season's end before too long.

Sigh,
jh
Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by Chuck » Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:53 pm

Thanks for the clarifications Harry.

I think we don't recognize the impact of microclimates in the US NE. We all know about islanding on the plateaus out west, and of course the various climates that mountain altitudes bring.

But just look around Lake Ontario- Toronto to the NW gets little snow but very cold; Buffalo to SW gets (reportedly) tons of snow, but not as cold as Toronto; Kingston in the NE gets real cold but not a lot of snow; Oswego/ Watertown in SE isn't as cold as Kingston but makes Buffalo snow look like child's play (on that, last year's snowstorm 40 people died in Buffalo; nobody died in Watertown. Stop blaming weather.) I'm mid-way along the lake, and south; we get more snow than Buffalo (and nobody dies) but in winter we run a good 8C warmer than Watertown. Toronto and Kingston warm up faster in spring- usually 2 weeks ahead of us- because the prevailing NW wind goes across the cold lake into NY.

Meanwhile, right where I am- Finger Lakes- we have a series of N-S lakes 25-40 miles long. The lakes are deep in between high hills. So the west shores warm later in the day because they're in the shade, and then bake in the setting sun. In both winter and summer the daily ground-level temperature may swing 50F. The plants on these shores then have to survive winter temps of -20C with high winds and then summer ground temps of 50C in brilliant sunlight that dries the soil. This limits what can grow, so limits the insects that can survive.

Butterfly field work in this area isn't like the tropics, where so many taxa are just fluttering about, everywhere. Here you have to target very specific micro-ecosystems to find particular butterflies. I could sit all day in one spot and not see a Tiger Swallowtail, but 500m away there's dozens of them. And, of these various Tiger polymorphs that Harry Pavulaan discussed, I'm still trying to figure out which ones occur where here, which might just be dwarf individuals, etc.

But now it's late Fall. We're going to Boston for a long weekend. Last night I dreamt that we were walking through Boston North End and a Tiger flew between me and my wife. "I have to bring my net!" (not "should have"). Then another flew in front of her. "I have to bring my net!" again. I awoke, and assured myself I would bring my net. When I awoke this morning I realized no, I do not need to bring my net. Field work is finished.
Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by harrypav » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:58 am

Chuck:

Oops, another one. You wrote: "I'm counting four in the paper: canadensis, near-canadensis, spring glaucus, and bjorkae." Sorry for any confusion. The canadensis entry is the same thing as "near-canadensis". I would have called it P. canadensis in R.I. but there is some doubt. It may be an isolate. Note my comment on page 13:

"A study by Scriber et al. (2002) indicated that summer maximum temperatures in the range of 30-36℃ (86-97℉) over a period of four days were lethal to diapausing pupae of canadensis. Data from the Rhode Island Dept. of Environmental Management (accessed online, 2023) stated that interior portions of Rhode Island experienced an average of 8-10 days of high temperatures of 36℃ (97℉) annually, with some summers experiencing as many as 20 or more such warm days. Scriber et al. (2002) concluded: “Natural temperature-induced stress on diapausing pupae prevents canadensis from extending range south.” Interestingly, along the immediate coast, temperatures rarely ever exceed 90℉, due to the moderating effect of the ocean. This might account for records of canadensis-like specimens near the Rhode Island coast."

So my suggestion here is that IF any canadensis females made it (strayed) down to the southern New England coast, high summer temps do not reach the threshold that would kill her offspring pupae when summer arrives. On the other hand, inland, away from the cooling effect of the ocean during the summer months, it gets too hot in interior R.I. during summer and any canadensis pupae would die from heat stress. The fact that I managed a few specimens in southern R.I. only, might support this idea that those could be isolates. OR, they could be a canadensis segregate, even if only temporarily. I sent a pair to Nick Grishin for genomic analysis (note missing abdomens in figs. 18-21.

You and your team are doing great work on the MST. Hopefully, you can also analyze that high-elevation population in the central Appalachian Highlands that should NOT be there according to Scriber's team. If your team can get their hands on some specimens from Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Maine, you can see if Alex Grkovich was correct in suggesting there are additional species in that region. Bjorkae might not be the same taxon as that in central New York or northern Pennsylvania, though I think it is. David Wright can help with Pennsylvania observations.

Harry

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Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by harrypav » Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:39 am

Chuck:

My reference to "near-canadensis" in my paper was to refer to the taxon that I personally considered canadensis in Rhode Island. But my reviewer suggested otherwise.

My reference to "canadensis-like" simply referred to any glaucus, bjorkae or MST as looking like canadensis.

Hope that clears that one up.

Harry
Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by Chuck » Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:54 pm

I'm trying to dissect Mr. Pavulaan's paper now. Perhaps he can step in and help. Really, the below isn't to critique his publication, I'm assembling notes so I can make sense of his observations and my observations.

the presence of small, potential canadensis-like adults sympatric with the larger bjorkae Are "near-canadensis" and "canadensis-like" referencing the same butterflies?

[about bjorkae] Obligate univoltine, corroborated by Hagen & Lederhouse (1985) for New York. This then presumes that Hagen's "early flight" is the same taxon as bjorkae. As I'd mentioned in the Tiger Swallowtails of the Finger Lakes thread, I've been unable to confirm what their Ithaca-area "early flight" is; remember, at the time, canadensis was not yet described, so it could have been canadensis (early flight) and glaucus (late flight); however, I went to Ithaca and all over the area and I could not find canadensis. Further, I cannot locate the specimens that Hagen & Lederhouse collected. At this point a cursory review of my regional specimens do not match bjorkae, not using the generally obvious & easy HW black abdominal line. Now, our two spring polymorphs in my area may not match those in Ithaca either. But in all, I'm not sold that H&L Ithaca taxon is the same as bjorkae.

The largest of the three spring-flying Tiger Swallowtails. But I'm counting four in the paper: canadensis, near-canadensis, spring glaucus, and bjorkae. So I'm confused; is "near canadensis" and "canadensis-like" the same as bjorkae?

In any event, bjorkae being "the largest" narrows things down and eliminates canadensis and mostly-canadensis hybrids. In my area, the largest spring flier is morphologically closer to the pictured Spring glaucus (Fig. 15) though I'll have to spend more time looking at mine, and other bjorkae as images become available. Besides which, if we have Spring Form glaucus, where's the summer form / flight?

Then I remembered...my pre-MST collection of local Tigers...all but one were caught in June. This flight/ population in June used to be quite common, but no longer is. A quick look at the underside of one specimen and it does look very bjorkae, and it is the right size. Needs further investigation.

Fig. 25 and 27 of bjorkae Ah...a thin black HW abdominal line. So bjorkae doesn't always have a wide stripe here. That opens the door a bit.
Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by adamcotton » Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:36 pm

Chuck wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:46 pm Now, hypothetically, if that type specimen turned out to be a hybrid, not a unique taxon, not a recombinant hybrid, then canadensis would cease to exist, right? And that name then could be applied to, for example, "real canadensis" from Thunder Bay, right? I presume this has happened in other cases.
No, even if the type specimen were a hybrid (it is clearly not artificially produced) the specimen would still be the name bearing type of Papilio canadensis.

Adam.
Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by eurytides » Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:13 pm

Harry, welcome, and thanks for chipping in the useful info. Good to know you have peer review. Regarding my comment on DNA analysis, I realize it's not required by the Code, or anyone, really. And I agree it shouldn't be all that we rely on. Relying on any one single tool is bound to lead us astray at some point. At the same time, there have been cases where relying on morphology alone isn't enough and DNA has then revealed cryptic species to us. It's an imperfect tool as I stated earlier in this thread, but I do advocate for its use as one tool of many in our armamentarium when it comes to taxonomy. Of course, it is also true that it's not feasible for everyone to do DNA on everything all the time. Chuck and I talked about this just the other day actually over private email. It's just not practical and really limits amateur entomologists.

My main concern is that the tiger swallowtails are so complex that I'm not sure relying on morphology and flight times alone are enough to sort out everything. We've done genetic work on canadensis, glaucus, and MST, and even with that data, it's still confusing exactly what's going on. If you were describing something that was clearly every different from everything else, yeah you probably wouldn't need DNA or much of anything other than saying butterfly X has trait A and nothing else does. But the tigers are a whole different ball of wax. Morphologically, there's canadensis, glaucus, and everything in between, and I mean everything. Chuck has many specimens where if we look at them without capture date and location, we basically are like, okay we have no idea what this is. You could indeed be on to something with bjorkae. Our certainty will increase as time passes and we amass more data. At the moment, I'm not even sure if your bjorkae is the same as what we're seeing in the spring where Chuck lives.
Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by Chuck » Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:46 pm

adamcotton wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:53 pm
I think it is worth pointing out that the type of Papilio canadensis came from Newfoundland, so "pure canadensis" comes from there. Whether or not Alaskan specimens are the same is another issue entirely.

Adam.
Ah, let's go with that.

There is no argument that whatever that Newfoundland type specimen is, it is canadensis. It is THE canadensis.

Now, hypothetically, if that type specimen turned out to be a hybrid, not a unique taxon, not a recombinant hybrid, then canadensis would cease to exist, right? And that name then could be applied to, for example, "real canadensis" from Thunder Bay, right? I presume this has happened in other cases.

Now, I'm trying to determine how I'd figure out if my local specimens really are bjorkae. Nuclear testing (I should say "nuclear DNA testing") might reveal something but we've already discussed the challenges to having that completed.

The other spring flight would be easy enough to figure out if it's uni or bivoltine, except I won't be able to raise them for a year to find out. COI testing would be easy enough, but my COI lab hasn't responded to my inquiry.
Topic: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail | Author: Chuck | Replies: 55 | Views: 4395
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Re: Papilio bjorkae (Pavulaan, 2024) Tiger Swallowtail

by adamcotton » Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:53 pm

Chuck wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:15 pm Yesterday I pulled out my Drawer From Hell, labeled "canadensis". I was joyful to see some "pure canadensis" from Alaska and Thunder Bay; but the rest are "near canadensis"
I think it is worth pointing out that the type of Papilio canadensis came from Newfoundland, so "pure canadensis" comes from there. Whether or not Alaskan specimens are the same is another issue entirely.

Adam.