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Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by Chuck » Wed May 29, 2024 7:03 pm

Thanks for the kind words Adam, I think you're the only one who might read this.

For my life, I've been a lumper, not a splitter. As you very well know from your own work & collaboration, we now know that some splitting is very appropriate. In the case of the eastern Tiger Swallowtails, I can't say I agree with my traditional views- the Mid Summer Tiger (MST) is closer to canadensis, but clearly it most certainly is NOT. So what to do?

In the case of MST, it's not a simple hybrid, it's a recombinant hybrid that while still hybridizing at the edges of the range has a generally stable, self-sustaining population. It's not islanded totally by geography or time, but in many respects it is, effectively, islanded with a small isthmus.

The whole concept of recombinant hybridization and speciation is interesting. Fish researchers have found similar cases in African lakes, but the differentiating populations have no physical or temporal boundaries- they just are doing it "because" (because we don't understand yet.)

As far as haplotypes and trees, now that's really interesting. Some regional groups of NA swallowtails branch off from others nearby, based on a very, very distant ancestor. Very very cool stuff. Of course you've seen this already in your latest (?) paper, and others on Charaxes, etc.

The summary I supposed is the word you used: "complex"; these are complexes of related butterflies. I don't even want to see a well researched and complete Speyeria tree.

In the end, I'm stupified we don't know more about Tiger Swallowtails. I will never have all the answers, but at least with specimens and data records, the future might reveal much more than we could imagine. So I keep chugging away on something that even most Lepidopterists don't care about.
Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by adamcotton » Wed May 29, 2024 5:45 pm

I must say Chuck is doing a great job trying to unravel what seems to be a very complex situation. This thread is really interesting, not only because of all the photos and data presented, but also the intrigue of getting to see all the issues as the data is accumulated. I am really looking forward to eventually finding out what the DNA results bring up and how they correlate with wing pattern differences. However, it may be necessary to include many more genes than COI before a clear picture starts to develop. Unfortunately that generally involves a large budget, unless adding only a few more genes produces better resolution. Certain groups of Papilionidae I have worked on just produce a jumbled mess using COI alone, whereas some actually produce good trees with high reliability. We can hope that the Tigers fall into the latter category.

Adam.
Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by Chuck » Wed May 29, 2024 5:14 pm

29may24
64F/ 18C 50% cloud

After four days of heavy rain and storms I was surprised to see any Tigers. I almost caught a female who wouldn't leave a box elder tree, basking in the sun. After she left another arrived, looking for a place in the sun, when a third tiger arrived and off they went.

Later (2:30pm) saw one check out the flowers on our deck and take off.

Observed 4, caught 0
Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by Chuck » Wed May 29, 2024 3:44 pm

SPRING FORM in FINGER LAKES, NY

That there exists a Spring Form of "Papilio glaucus" (in quotes because that is undetermined) has long been recognized. According to Scriber, 1990 "Interaction of Introgressionfrom Papilio Glaucus Canadensis and Diapause in Producing "Spring Form" Eastern Tiger Swallowtail Butterflies, P. Glaucus" the Spring Form expresses canadensis traits due to interbreeding, traits which do not arise in the summer form.

In at least the Finger Lakes region of NY, Hagen & Lederhouse (1985) demonstrated that Spring Flight (which one must suppose is Spring Form, not canadensis) is univoltine- it does not lead to larvae which emerge as adults in the same year. I do not know whether Spring Form in VA and elsewhere is univoltine, though they look remarkably the same.

Male

Image

Image

Female

Image

Image

Some might say it looks like any old Tiger Swallowtail, which is of course not the case. Comparisons:

Larger than canadensis; smaller that nominate glaucus; about the size of small MST.

Wings more apexed than canadensis; HW not as elongated as MST. In this particular female, the wings are indeed apexed like MST.

Head tuft of hair between antennae like canadensis, but the black HW line alongside the abdomen isn't wide enough for canadensis; it is about the same as some MST.

FW verso submarginal yellow band unbroken or almost, like MST. HW verso black line separating yellow from dark is almost straight, more like canadensis and certainly like MST.

Yellow/ orange Lunules on HW verso are more square than glaucus, not close to canadensis, and not dissimilar to the variation of MST (compare the female to the male.)

Legs have been frozen for genetic analysis. I think "Spring Form" at least our Spring Form is not glaucus. We shall see.
Topic: Unique papilio polyxenes | Author: mothman55 | Replies: 4 | Views: 204
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Re: Unique papilio polyxenes

by Chuck » Tue May 28, 2024 1:52 pm

This "orange form" does pop up now and then. I'm guessing maybe 1 in 1000? I don't know what causes it, but they fly with normal polyxenes, so I'm guessing it's not environmental.
Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by Chuck » Tue May 28, 2024 12:21 pm

Paul & Mothman55- your personal observations are invaluable, keep posting!

In "Butterflies of Viginia" 1953(?) Clark & Clark went off-topic and delved into many pages on forms and ranges and flight periods found throughout eastern North America. For the most part, there has been no significant effort to add to that study- most of what we know is by-product of specific study (e.g. the description of appalachiensis).

About Tigers in the Toronto area, both Wang and Schmidt have published papers that discuss the ranges of glaucus, canadensis, and MST, including maps. I've posted links in this thread somewhere in the past. They are, of course, not comprehensive, and the range of MST (at least) is fluid. But the Canadians do have a far better view of the range of the three taxa than can be found for NY or anywhere in NE USA.

So I'd urge everyone who's interested to offer observations of any sort concerning Tigers, and not just in the east, there are "issues" in the west, and in the US south.

.......................

25 May 2024 I went up near the Lake Ontario shoreline to search for small Tigers that I believe a hybrid between Spring Form and canadensis. Hiking through some real tough deciduous regrowth for hours I saw nothing. Only when I got back in the truck did I see one, flying high along the forest edge as they do. Then garbage weather came in, and continues through today 5/28.

Observed 1, captured 0.
Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by eurytides » Mon May 27, 2024 6:22 am

I had an aberrant female a few years ago, also with heavier than typical black markings.
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Topic: "Proboscis case" in Sphingidae pupae (continuation) | Author: lamprima2 | Replies: 3 | Views: 190
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Re: "Proboscis case" in Sphingidae pupae (continuation)

by lamprima2 » Sun May 26, 2024 11:59 pm

The photo was taken from the pupa of Agrius convolvuli.
Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by mothman55 » Sun May 26, 2024 10:45 pm

Yes, she is on the spreading board now. Just as I was about to sweep the net, a male came and chased her to the other side of this huge lilac stand.I had to search for a few minutes as there were many males around. Finally found her again and made no mistake this time.
Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by Trehopr1 » Sun May 26, 2024 7:56 pm

Absolutely incredible female !! 😍

I do hope you were able to catch that one before it flew away.....🙏☺️
Topic: Unique papilio polyxenes | Author: mothman55 | Replies: 4 | Views: 204
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Re: Unique papilio polyxenes

by Trehopr1 » Sun May 26, 2024 7:54 pm

That's quite an incredible capture of a VERY unique female.

I have never seen anything quite like that in all my life !
Topic: Love hairstreaks and blues | Author: mothman55 | Replies: 2 | Views: 127
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Re: Love hairstreaks and blues

by wollastoni » Sun May 26, 2024 1:17 pm

Erora laeta has a wonderful underside ! Thank you for sharing !
Topic: "Proboscis case" in Sphingidae pupae (continuation) | Author: lamprima2 | Replies: 3 | Views: 190
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Re: "Proboscis case" in Sphingidae pupae (continuation)

by wollastoni » Sun May 26, 2024 1:14 pm

Wonderful ! Thank you for sharing.
Topic: "Proboscis case" in Sphingidae pupae (continuation) | Author: lamprima2 | Replies: 3 | Views: 190
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"Proboscis case" in Sphingidae pupae (continuation)

by lamprima2 » Sun May 26, 2024 4:09 am

A while ago, I asked Insectnet members if something was published on the
structure and function of Sphinginae pupae's maxillary loops (aka "jug handle”). There was no reply. I contacted a few specialists in this area. One of them replied: "If you would look inside, you will see that the galeae extend from the head into the loop, then the galeae bend sharply back and turn back to the head of the pupae. On the pupae, you can see the distal part of the developing galeae in the midline of the pupae between the developing wings." I spent some time trying to find something illustrating this observation and finally found this amazing photograph by M. Albrecht (from Danner et al., “Die Schwarmer der westlichen Palearktis,” Herbipoliana, Band 4/2, 1998, Plate 46).
Agrias convulvuli pupa proboscis copy.jpg
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Topic: Can someone please identify regular housequest? | Author: Boertje | Replies: 3 | Views: 789
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Re: Can someone please identify regular housequest?

by Boertje » Sun May 26, 2024 3:40 am

Hi Adam

Thank you very much for the extensive information. Much appreciated!

Best regards
B
Topic: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II | Author: Chuck | Replies: 120 | Views: 568143
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Re: Tiger Swallowtails of NY: Finger Lakes, Part II

by Paul K » Sat May 25, 2024 8:17 pm

That female looks awesome!!
I only saw males and despite lilacs in full bloom I wasn’t able to spot a female. I’m still missing a female of this species leaving in Canada for over 3 decades. I suppose I did not make enough effort.
Topic: Love hairstreaks and blues | Author: mothman55 | Replies: 2 | Views: 127
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Love hairstreaks and blues

by mothman55 » Sat May 25, 2024 6:39 pm

One of the more difficult hairstreaks to find is the early hairstreak (Erora laeta), rarely found and only in May in this area (Central Ontario). I was fortunate again this year to find a female, here are a couple of pics. Also an aberrant silvery blue (Glaucopsyche lygdamus), note
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the absence of the usual spots on the ventral side. Its a female.
Topic: A great year for elfins | Author: mothman55 | Replies: 2 | Views: 110
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Re: A great year for elfins

by mothman55 » Sat May 25, 2024 6:31 pm

In the previous post, the elfins in order are hoary, brown, and bog. The two that follow here are eastern pine and henry's.
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Topic: A great year for elfins | Author: mothman55 | Replies: 2 | Views: 110
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A great year for elfins

by mothman55 » Sat May 25, 2024 6:28 pm

Early this May is the time for elfins in Central Ontario. But this year was a great year for these little brown critters. There are five species in this area, and four of the five were as numerous as I have ever seen. The more rare one in the group, the bog elfin (Callophrys lanoraieensis) was also seen in multiple bogs this year, and I was fortunate to see my first ones. The other four species, brown (C. augustinus), hoary (C. polios), henry's (C. henrici), and eastern pine (C. niphon) were found in mass all over central Ontario. In my favourite elfin spot, I saw well over 100 elfins in a 3 hour period. Here
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are a few elfin pics from a couple of weeks ago.
Topic: Unique papilio polyxenes | Author: mothman55 | Replies: 4 | Views: 204
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Re: Unique papilio polyxenes

by kevinkk » Sat May 25, 2024 6:24 pm

I had to look at the polyxenes I raised a few years ago from Ohio stock. Your butterfly has more orange, my specimens have smaller orange eyespots and no orange on the border.