Paul K wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:03 pm This applies to almost all moth species as most are pupate underground. As Chuck said they are definitely dig them self out. The pupa waits until rain or morning mist is loosening the dirt to make the journey to the surface easier.

Paul K,
Thank you for your reply.
Nothing is definite until you prove it.
Is your opinion based on a personal observation or a peer-reviewed publication?
Please share the source.

jwa121,
Thank you for sharing your observations.
They suggest that the pupa, at least in some cases,
can move to the surface from its underground pupating
chamber. I suspect the coconut coir is much less dense
than average soil, which is far from natural.
Moreover, the way of emergence may depend on the
type of soil and the species of the moth.
As I previously said, I am raising a bunch of M. sexta,
hoping to find out how this species can emerge intact
from their underground burrows.
Best regards

I enjoy rearing the caterpillars of Saturniid moths, especially African species, many of which burrow into the soil to pupate. I typically let the mature caterpillars pupate individually, in separate containers in which I have put some cut-up damp paper towel.

But once the resulting pupae have appeared and suitably hardened, I will often bury multiple pupae together in damp coconut coir, in preparation for the emergence of the moths.

I can attest to the fact that the resulting moths always emerge unscathed, leaving their empty pupal shells behind, buried, in situ, in the coconut coir.

Occasionally, pupae buried in coconut coir will migrate upwards through the coir until they break the surface of the coconut coir and become just visible. It has been my experience, though, that most of the time the moths emerge underground and make their way to the surface, leaving their empty pupal shells buried, in situ.

John

A wonderful species account Vernon !

Thank you for your interest and participation.

The first underwing I ever captured was C. cara (later determined to be carissima). It was on a tree at my grandparents' house in Houma, LA. I was about 10 years old. I ran & told my grandfather, who grabbed a cyanide killing jar that he had made for my uncle's 4-H insect collection project. I quickly placed it over the moth. It lasted about 2 seconds in the cyanide fumes and was not damaged. I remember being very impressed with the intense red of the hindwings. I still have the specimen.

Here in Louisiana we have Catocala carissima which is easily distinguished from C. cara by the apical forewing patches and deeper red color on the hindwings in C carissima. Here is my species account published 16 years ago on C carissima in Louisiana. You can see the differences in male and female compared to C. cara.

Probably one of the (most) striking species of Catocala
found in mostly the eastern (half) of the U.S is the
Darling Underwing (Catocala cara). The species was first
described by Achille Guenee in 1852. For perspective, our
1st catocala species (C. epione) was named by Dru Drury
(a british entomologist) in 1773. So, it took 79 long years
to finally name (C. cara) which seems extraordinarily
long for such a rather (large) and yet boldly colored
species of underwing.

Darling Underwing (C.cara) (Male-top / Female-bottom)


The larvae of this fabulously deep scarlet-pink species
are said to feed upon popular and cottonwood with a
particular fondness for black willow. I have all of these
trees present in my area yet, I have checked several
times for larvae and have never run across one.

I have had very minimal luck over the years finding
adults of the species in my general region although, they
are there. It has certainly (for me) remained one of THE
more difficult species to encounter despite having run
across some 30 species by my last count. I have never had
it show up at any lights (unlike many other species); so I
have come to believe that it is a species largely attracted
to baits. Thus, sugaring is probably the best method of
possibly getting any....

Having only collected 4 specimens these last 20+ years
I didn't exactly have enough of a series to notice subtle
differences between the sexes. However, through a very
kind and helpful member (here) I was able to secure a
larger sampling of (cara) via some trading (for which I
am eternally grateful) !

Looking at the above photograph one will notice that
(males) have very much "blacker" forewings and bolder
almost (intense) scarlet-pink hindwings. Relatively, fresh
examples also exhibit a "purplish" sheen over those truly
black forewings. Females, though still beautiful in their
more somber pink shades offer a much more bark-like
forewing pattern on more brownish forewings.

It was not until I was able to acquire additional specimens
for a larger series (comparison) that I noticed these subtle
and yet obvious differences between the sexes of this moth.

While it can be said that a look at the genitalia or the
frenulum will settle most issues; neither is (always)
necessarily easy to see on dried specimens. Size differences
are also not exactly a sure thing either as there are
large examples of both sexes amongst catocala.

I hope this helps those who might have few examples
of this splendid species in their collection. Finally, having
an acceptable series (for comparison) has certainly opened
my eyes.

I am no expert, and have had the same dilemma separating these two similar species. But if I had to guess, I would say all 8 of yours are mira. The way I attempt to differentiate these two species is that the am and pm lines on the forewings meet at the inner margin in blandula, while there is some seperation of am and pm lines at the inner margin in mira. In my photo, the top specimen you can see clear separation of am and pm lines at inner margin, thus mira. The bottom one I believe to be blandula as the lines appear to come together. I could be wrong, but this is how I attempt to label them.

Cheers! I will delete the post soon. Just thought it would be helpful to share the good news before deleting.

Well, so my last attempt was probably amusing, misspelling antiopa for the last 40+ years. An undiagnosed reading disorder.
Anyway, now that all the butterflies are hatched, believe it or not, there's 21 in the cage, I still am unsure how to overwinter
them.
Without more information, I'm going to keep them for a few days in the cage, try to feed them, and then they'll have to
go into storage. The worst that could happen I suppose is I have a bunch of deadstock in the spring.

While we have much going on in the fall, I am concerned for our friends in the Southeast. I have family in NC, luckily for them, out of the
path of destruction, but few are out of the path of consequences. Best wishes for the affected.

I have these 8 specimens which I've collected over the past few years. I've gone back and forth thinking they were C. mira or C. blandula. Currently I am of the opinion that the majority are C. mira and at least the darkest one (bottom left in first photo) is C. blandula. Looking for input from others, what do you think?

That's a good news. We are happy for you (and for her).

Thanks for the update.

I personnally think it is a very interesting topic.

It's only natural that a story about entomologists imprisoned for hunting without a permit in a national park should lead to digressions on both the ridiculousness of certain anti-science legal rules over the world and the irresponsibility of certain entomologists. That's how a forum discussion works.

Please keep it "friendly" guys...

I am very happy to say that Mari Felipe has sent replacements and is once again her usual honest and reliable self. She genuinely had some challenges to overcome and has worked very hard to preserve her honesty and reputation. I admire and respect that. Thank you very much Mari Felipe

Four years later, it's time again.... sad

Trehopr1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 8:35 pm
You have won nothing here.

Oh, but contraire! I have won John Shuey's perspective on collecting and research in Brazil; I have won JHyatt's humor and perspective, I have won the observation by the Cassidinae that there is an unfortunate and sad lack of support for field work; I have won an admiration and example for Adam's concise and adult approach to moderation. I am, as always, richer for the insights of those whom I consider more experienced colleagues.

Those are quite the hymenoptera holdings that you have there 58chevy !

In that upper photograph you have more of that order pictured then I have in my entire collection.

I am really quite done "fencing" with you Chuck over this thoroughly exhausted subject.

You have won nothing here.

Posts were edited here (prior to my saying anything) yet, still the negative banter continued. Enough said....

Trehopr1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:48 pm
I am sorry to see that any moderator had to get involved here but, we moderators have to stay vigilant at keeping the forum enjoyable for all.

Polite moderation- editing the post and noting it as edited, and a PM to the member would be sufficient. There was no need for monologues.

Enjoyable for all...all what? All six regular participants?