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Topic: Butterflies of Virginia, Clark & Clark 1951 | Author: Chuck | Replies: 3 | Views: 43
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Re: Butterflies of Virginia, Clark & Clark 1951

by Chuck » Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:04 pm

Ha, John it never occurred to me that the book would be ESPECIALLY interesting and useful for those living in Virginia!

Yes, it's sad to now look back and see how so many species are extirpated from the lands they once occupied. I did find it interesting that in the early 20th century they reported (as you cited) species expanding in range, and apparently quickly.
Topic: Butterflies of Virginia, Clark & Clark 1951 | Author: Chuck | Replies: 3 | Views: 43
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Re: Butterflies of Virginia, Clark & Clark 1951

by jhyatt » Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:03 pm

I reread my copy every few years, Chuck -- and not just because I live near, and collect in, VA regularly. There's fascinating info in there -- like the fact that they found only one specimen of Pieris virginiensis in Virginia, and it was about 200 feet from the WVA border (it's now dirt common in SW VA, and much further south, too), that Colias eurytheme was a recent addition to the VA fauna (it wasn't seen north of the NC border until around 1920, as I recall), and that Speyeria diana still flew on the outer coastal plain at their time of study (the type locality of diana is Jamestown, VA!). They gave records for the now-vanished Speyeria idalia in over 30 VA counties, too. I'm sure their long, long discussion of P. glaucus broods and variation is of great interest to your own research, too.

Cheeers,
jh
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 39 | Views: 967
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by adamcotton » Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:45 pm

The reason Amphion floridensis is not called nessus is because Sphinx nessus Cramer, 1777 is a junior homonym of the Asian Sphinx nessus Drury, 1773 which is currently known as Theretra nessus (Drury, 1773).

Adam.
Topic: Butterflies of Virginia, Clark & Clark 1951 | Author: Chuck | Replies: 3 | Views: 43
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Butterflies of Virginia, Clark & Clark 1951

by Chuck » Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:53 pm

Image

I pulled this book out to research something, and got caught reading it. I'd forgotten just how wonderfully chock full it is with information. It's not just about Virginia's butterflies- it goes into extensive observations by Mr. and Mrs. Clark and other researchers, correlations with weather patterns, and goes well into other states. Unlike most books on identification (from Golden Nature to Opler or Scott) this one goes into details...it's more like a very thorough field notes.

Though many hypotheses and taxonomic "facts" have been changed in the 70 years since publication, it is astonishing the number of questions raised, generally in the form of observations that don't quite form a conclusion, that remain unanswered today. And being a snapshot of the time, focused on the early 20th century, some observations now may be relevant, such as one taxon that had apparently been moving north- an early harbinger of climate change?

It's an astonishing read, from end to end, because it's not just a book about butterflies, it's a story, a true story. Clearly, the author didn't intend it to be that way, but with all the name dropping, period observations, and data it has become a story.

Unfortunately, I could not find a copy available online to purchase. But you may want to keep your eyes open.
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 39 | Views: 967
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Chuck » Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:44 pm

eurytides wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:21 pm Chuck, what happens with the genus Amphion? I thought this was still legit?
My error- old age. Amphion is valid, the species name was changed from nessus to floridensis. It's still nessus to me. I ain't changing any labels either.
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 39 | Views: 967
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by eurytides » Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:21 pm

Chuck, what happens with the genus Amphion? I thought this was still legit?
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 154
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by eurytides » Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:13 pm

Yeah, I say go for it!

Chuck: rex :)
Topic: Euparthenos nubilis -- the false underwing. | Author: Trehopr1 | Replies: 3 | Views: 85
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Re: Euparthenos nubilis -- the false underwing.

by Chuck » Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:29 pm

They are attractive, but here they are so common as to be a horrible nuisance...just like their host plant.
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 39 | Views: 967
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by adamcotton » Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:53 am

It is possible he was unable to obtain any samples of lydiae for DNA analysis, or perhaps it was at that time included within a larger species group. It is worth noting that Aduse-Poku et al. (2009) only included two species of Polyura and 3 Oriental Charaxes species, so they did not include all species. They write:

Selection of taxa for the study was based on available taxonomic
information on the Charaxes species-group (Ackery et al.,
1995; Larsen, 2005; Williams, 2008). As ingroups, the exemplar
species were selected such that they represented all known ‘informal’
species-groups of Charaxes in Africa (a total of 125 specimens
of 83 species). We also included as ingroups all known species of
the two Charaxinae genera (Euxanthe and Palla) in Africa, three of
ca. 30 Oriental Charaxes and two exemplar species of Polyura.

Adam.
Topic: Papilio elephenor | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 3 | Views: 131
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Re: Papilio elephenor

by Annarobertson1947 » Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:47 am

:lol:
wollastoni wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:08 am There is a "Make an offer" button. Nobody will pay so much for elephenor, don't worry.
Oh I'm not worried, you can't take money with you, but on second thoughts , cant take butterflies either 😊
Topic: Euparthenos nubilis -- the false underwing. | Author: Trehopr1 | Replies: 3 | Views: 85
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Re: Euparthenos nubilis -- the false underwing.

by livingplanet3 » Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:04 am

Trehopr1 wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:52 pm There is a species of moth which has evolved the cryptic
forewing coloration of underwing moths (Catocala) along
with the "flash coloration" aspect of the hindwings.

It is commonly known as the Locust Underwing (Euparthenos
nubilis) as its larval host is black locust AND it is the only
member of its genus in America north of Mexico...
Interesting - thanks; I've occasionally seen these moths over the years, and just assumed that they were a species of Catocala.
Topic: Euparthenos nubilis -- the false underwing. | Author: Trehopr1 | Replies: 3 | Views: 85
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Euparthenos nubilis -- the false underwing.

by Trehopr1 » Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:52 pm

There is a species of moth which has evolved the cryptic
forewing coloration of underwing moths (Catocala) along
with the "flash coloration" aspect of the hindwings.

It is commonly known as the Locust Underwing (Euparthenos
nubilis) as its larval host is black locust AND it is the only
member of its genus in America north of Mexico.

Much like (true) underwings it is fond of fermenting fruit, fruit
baits, and mercury vapor lights. So, it can be an occasional or
even common visitor whenever/wherever someone seeks
catocala specimens.

The photo below features an adult (female) at the top
whilst a specimen of our Oldwife Underwing (C. paleogama)
is situated below.

Image

It is easy to see how this species is often initially mistaken
for a true catocala by those first initiated with the method
of "sugaring for moths". It is also a wonderful example of
how evolutionary success in nature carries across a broad
spectrum of species and genera.
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 39 | Views: 967
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Annarobertson1947 » Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:50 pm

Now my final question on this subject as i now have a good understanding of this .
Aduse-Poku seems to not recognise C. Lydiae as,a member of Charaxini in his system of classification.
Thierry Bouyer has given Lydiae a separate monospecific genus, stating it as unique in regards to all other Charaxini members.
Can one assume then that Aduse-Poku didn't consider Lydiae as a member of Charaxini or, just missed including it ????? 🤔
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 39 | Views: 967
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Annarobertson1947 » Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:20 pm

wollastoni wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:05 am There are 2 important rules in taxonomy :

#1 : you have to follow the latest publication. So in this case Bouyer 2023. (We now have scientific techniques like DNA analysis we didn't have in 2009).
#2 : InsectNet members are always right, so once again, you have to follow Bouyer 2023 (@africaone on this forum). :lol: :lol: :lol:
🤔 well im afraid I'm not going to follow either of these rules
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 39 | Views: 967
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Annarobertson1947 » Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:17 pm

Thanks for this detailed information.
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 154
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by Jshuey » Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:14 pm

jhyatt wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:05 pm Are the new one and spatulata sympatric? No difference at all in wing morphology? Seems like a pretty subtle difference to hang a new name on... wonder what DNA analysis might show? That'd at least be a 2nd character to consider.

Nice work,
jh
Yes, the potential new one is sympatric with both spatulata and 6 other species that cannot be separated by wing pattern alone. The biggest wing pattern element that differs between species is tail length! And most of these species have at best, subtlety different genetalia (see below). The potential new species is actually easier to separate than most of the others. All four of the species below are sympatric with the potential new one.

John

Topic: LepSoc meeting @Cornell 14-18 July who's going? | Author: Chuck | Replies: 2 | Views: 128
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Re: LepSoc meeting @Cornell 14-18 July who's going?

by Jshuey » Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:14 pm

I am not, at this time, pondering attendance.

John
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 154
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by kevinkk » Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:47 pm

It's about time. Except possibly for Star Trek, The Simpsons is the greatest tv show of all time. There is a Simpsons episode for every facet of modern
life.
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 154
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by Chuck » Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:10 pm

I think lisimpsonia is a great idea!

John Tennent told me he tried to get Polyura thane pushed through; the reviewers couldn't figure out what he was up to, but knew he was up to something, so wouldn't approve. Snobs.

I threatened to name a new butterfly tennentisapennis but he said he'd kill me. For another bug, I'd suggested naming it for one of my collaborators with "rex" appended to his/ the species name. That didn't go either.

I say do it; if there's that many species, what are you going to name them all based on- color?
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 154
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by jhyatt » Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:05 pm

Are the new one and spatulata sympatric? No difference at all in wing morphology? Seems like a pretty subtle difference to hang a new name on... wonder what DNA analysis might show? That'd at least be a 2nd character to consider.

Nice work,
jh