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Topic: Agrias butterflies | Author: wollastoni | Replies: 52 | Views: 1147
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wollastoni
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Re: Agrias butterflies

by wollastoni » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:17 am

daveuk wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:33 pm A couple more of my Agrias with data
Female A claudina croesus from Kempton Show London.
Male A sardanapalus lugina form godmani from Chuck Ianni.
Dave, the correct ID of your second Agrias is a Agrias claudina lugina form orleansi.
Please note that "sardanapalus" is a ssp of claudina (from Iquitos, Venezualian Amazonas, Brazilian Amazonas & Rondonia)
Please note that "godmani" is a ssp of claudina too (from Mato Grosso).

As Agrias is a very complex group (with a lot of hybridization and forms), there are a lot of errors in books and collections.

If I had to recommend one book to start studying them, Manfred Späth's monography about Agrias is the best one and it is not expensive at all.
Then to better understand forms, Floquet's volumes are a must (but hard to find).
Topic: Finally met one of my mentors! | Author: Chuck | Replies: 9 | Views: 307
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Re: Finally met one of my mentors!

by ColoradEO » Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:32 am

Would have been fun to meet those that were there! Eric
Topic: iNaturalist | Author: 58chevy | Replies: 15 | Views: 485
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Re: iNaturalist

by ColoradEO » Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:30 am

I had 5 minutes so I just ID’d one of yours…. Hope I got it right. Eric
Topic: Lep Foraging | Author: jmoths | Replies: 6 | Views: 107
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Re: Lep Foraging

by eurytides » Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:00 am

A few years ago I visited San Francisco in December. Found some wild fennel and within a few minutes, I located an L5 zelicaon larva.
Topic: Lep Foraging | Author: jmoths | Replies: 6 | Views: 107
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Re: Lep Foraging

by kevinkk » Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:42 am

They both look the same... except I can't grow dill to save my life. The fennel, on the other hand is going to be doing battle with my flamethrower
one of these days. I bought 1 container at the nursery for about 10 bucks, nice bronze fennel that has a purplish color in spots. We have volunteer
fennel all over the neighborhood... gee whiz, I wonder where that came from, probably some of those starlings.
It takes 2 of us about 2 days to cut the fennel back after it reseeds itself like those Triffids. I do insist on inspecting each branch though, still
haven't found a zelicaon pupa, just tiny snails. We do smell nice afterwards.
Topic: Tropical invertebrates | Author: livingplanet3 | Replies: 1 | Views: 27
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Tropical invertebrates

by livingplanet3 » Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:33 am

Some illustrations of tropical insects (and a spider) from a 1980 book by Edward S. Ayensu, "Jungles" -

Image
Topic: Agrias butterflies | Author: wollastoni | Replies: 52 | Views: 1147
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Re: Agrias butterflies

by kevinkk » Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:57 am

The use of liquids that can also cause dessication, I probably butchered that word- is interesting, many of us use dispatching liquids that have a drying
effect, livingplant3, absolutely correct, what works for one person may not work so well for someone else, that's why there are so many
"sure fire" methods, it's just like gardening, or fishing. It was weird going to the pharmacy and asking for hypodermic needles, and explaining
what I was up to, I expected you needed a scrip, but not these days.
I do apologize for anyone that might have been slighted by my comment about buying alcohol, it was still early and the coffee drug hadn't
kicked in yet. The one thing though, once you find that method that works- the bug world is all out there. I try to freeze specimens, but that
is not always possible, and even at home can be a little difficult, somehow most leps just don't want to slide into an envelope and go into the freezer.
I had good success dispatching the A. atropos though, those things would just crawl onto a napkin and hope everything was ok.:)
Topic: Agrias butterflies | Author: wollastoni | Replies: 52 | Views: 1147
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Re: Agrias butterflies

by livingplanet3 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:46 pm

kevinkk wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:23 pm It took a long time to fully relax those big butterflies, water only, with the insect layed on a moist paper towel. Water only. Some of the
larger females took 7 days, much longer than the purported 24 hours, but that was for much smaller specimens. It did work though, and a
good thing, I was injecting specimens with water, I tried a relaxant I had for beetles, that isn't even sold anymore I'd had it so long.
I had no mold problems, the cold seems to prevent that, I used a tight fitted plastic box, and would periodically check to see how things were
going, when they finally seemed ready to spread, they spread like a dream compared to the mess I made out of earlier, and less expensive
specimens, the legs never seemed to soften, but the rest of the butterfly was pliable. About the mold preventative, I'm not 100% sure, I have
a disinfectant I use for larva sometimes, it's called Oxine, and I may have put in a few drops of that, just because I have it, and everyone else
uses something, but I think simply the cold prevents mold. It was a new experience for me, I had been reading posts in the forum about
Ornithoptera, and I had an empty case hanging in a dark corner- so 500 bucks later we have 10 butterflies. The last turning out best, goliath
procus, I never knew a butterfly could be so big. This new thread about using gin or vodka threw me for a loop, I thought the cold method
had solved this issue. Personally, I think it's just an excuse to go to the liquor store...honey, I need some entomology supplies, be back later-
I am sure the cold process is still up in the blog section along with the other articles.
Many thanks for your input. Based on the experiences of multiple forum members, it does seem that similar results can be achieved using a number of variations in the methods used to relax specimens. Based on the comments of those who have used an alcohol / water mixture as a component of their technique, it appears that alcohol might somehow help with the absorption of moisture, reducing the amount of time needed for complete rehydration? But undoubtedly, there are other factors involved as well, such as the volume of the container, how airtight it is, and the temperature at which it is kept. Any method that works very well for one collector however, should work just the same for any other, so long as all of the conditions are the same. My own preference would be to use a method that doesn't involve alcohol, injection, or refrigeration, such as that described by wollastoni (viewtopic.php?p=3996#p3996). I'd be ok with using an alcohol / water mixture, so long as the amount required is small.

On the old forum, the following seems to be the main thread in which relaxation methods were discussed (2021) -

https://archive.insectnet.com/thread/95 ... ies?page=1
Topic: Lep Foraging | Author: jmoths | Replies: 6 | Views: 107
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eurytides
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Re: Lep Foraging

by eurytides » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:18 pm

Sorry, I meant to say wild fennel, not dill.
Topic: Agrias butterflies | Author: wollastoni | Replies: 52 | Views: 1147
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Re: Agrias butterflies

by daveuk » Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:33 pm

A couple more of my Agrias with data
Female A claudina croesus from Kempton Show London.
Male A sardanapalus lugina form godmani from Chuck Ianni.
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Topic: Agrias butterflies | Author: wollastoni | Replies: 52 | Views: 1147
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Re: Agrias butterflies

by kevinkk » Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:23 pm

It took a long time to fully relax those big butterflies, water only, with the insect layed on a moist paper towel. Water only. Some of the
larger females took 7 days, much longer than the purported 24 hours, but that was for much smaller specimens. It did work though, and a
good thing, I was injecting specimens with water, I tried a relaxant I had for beetles, that isn't even sold anymore I'd had it so long.
I had no mold problems, the cold seems to prevent that, I used a tight fitted plastic box, and would periodically check to see how things were
going, when they finally seemed ready to spread, they spread like a dream compared to the mess I made out of earlier, and less expensive
specimens, the legs never seemed to soften, but the rest of the butterfly was pliable. About the mold preventative, I'm not 100% sure, I have
a disinfectant I use for larva sometimes, it's called Oxine, and I may have put in a few drops of that, just because I have it, and everyone else
uses something, but I think simply the cold prevents mold. It was a new experience for me, I had been reading posts in the forum about
Ornithoptera, and I had an empty case hanging in a dark corner- so 500 bucks later we have 10 butterflies. The last turning out best, goliath
procus, I never knew a butterfly could be so big. This new thread about using gin or vodka threw me for a loop, I thought the cold method
had solved this issue. Personally, I think it's just an excuse to go to the liquor store...honey, I need some entomology supplies, be back later-
I am sure the cold process is still up in the blog section along with the other articles.
Topic: Lep Foraging | Author: jmoths | Replies: 6 | Views: 107
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Re: Lep Foraging

by kevinkk » Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:00 pm

Fennel also grows wild in northern Cali, I spent nearly 20 years in Humboldt and that stuff was everywhere, maybe dill grows wild as well,
I know here at home, I have seen Papilio zelicaon oviposit on my fennel plants, they're not very common here on the coast though.
Finding wild larva or pupa is pretty much pure luck, it's going to be location, location.. knowing your target food plant is important.
I can count the cocoons I've found in the wild on 1 hand, you're more likely to find larva. In the east, people seem to collect a lot of
wild material, but that's a 2000 mile drive from here.
Topic: Agrias butterflies | Author: wollastoni | Replies: 52 | Views: 1147
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Re: Agrias butterflies

by livingplanet3 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:57 pm

kevinkk wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:47 pm I will join in with Bobw, I thought this relaxing issue had been solved with the cold method, which worked very well for my Ornithptera. Personally,
I have some "health" issues and cringe at the thought of alcohol in the house. You guys can give your specimens all the gin, vodka, and grain alcohol
you like, but I will be using the cold process the next time I get around to making a case of leaf mimics.
I may have asked about this before, but how long did it take to fully relax your Ornithoptera in the refrigerator? Did they become as pliable as when fresh? Also - you used water only; no additive that would act as mold preventative? I too, would prefer not to use alcohol, if possible.
Topic: Agrias butterflies | Author: wollastoni | Replies: 52 | Views: 1147
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Re: Agrias butterflies

by kevinkk » Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:47 pm

bobw wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:08 am
wollastoni wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:04 am Try to soak the kitchen paper with vodka, it works better than boiling water and avoid moisture. With vodka, you can then leave big specimens like Agrias for 2 or 3 days if needed and don't have to inject them.
Now, I only use this method, that I learnt last year from an entomological friend.
Olivier

A year or so ago, I started using the method you described using the fridge, it was the first method that's ever really worked for me. Now you're saying to use vodka instead of water, do you still keep them in the fridge? Mind you, it sounds as though it could get rather expensive!
I will join in with Bobw, I thought this relaxing issue had been solved with the cold method, which worked very well for my Ornithptera. Personally,
I have some "health" issues and cringe at the thought of alcohol in the house. You guys can give your specimens all the gin, vodka, and grain alcohol
you like, but I will be using the cold process the next time I get around to making a case of leaf mimics. BTW, that's a nice Agrias.
Topic: Agrias butterflies | Author: wollastoni | Replies: 52 | Views: 1147
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Re: Agrias butterflies

by wollastoni » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:05 pm

I think this is the rarest Agrias in my collection : Agrias phalcidon phalcidon form floqueti.

Image

Known from very few specimens.
This local form has been found in a small biotope around Rio Urupadi (Brazil).
Topic: Lep Foraging | Author: jmoths | Replies: 6 | Views: 107
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Re: Lep Foraging

by eurytides » Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:59 pm

Pupae are well hidden and pure luck if you find them. Larvae are best found on their host plants. For example, P. zelicaon can be found on dill which grows wild in many places in California.
Topic: Catocala ID | Author: Marsdenda | Replies: 2 | Views: 67
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Re: Catocala ID

by bobw » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:50 am

It's difficult to be certain as the specimen is very worn and there's no indication of size, but it's either C. sponsa or C. dilecta.
Topic: Lep Foraging | Author: jmoths | Replies: 6 | Views: 107
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Lep Foraging

by jmoths » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:14 am

Hello all,
I am writing this post asking for help finding the immature stages of the below species of butterfly:

Gray Buckeye (J. coenia)
West Coast Lady (V. annabella)
Red Admiral (V. atalanta)
Pale Swallowtail (P. eurymedon)
Anise Swallowtail (P. zelicaon)
Orange Sulphur (C. eurytheme)

Does anyone have advice on where larvae or pupae could be found? The season they are found in? I am in the Pasadena area (Los Angeles). Thank you! :D
Topic: May I know what is this insect with spotted pattern? | Author: unagime | Replies: 2 | Views: 33
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Re: May I know what is this insect with spotted pattern?

by adamcotton » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:09 am

They must have been a mating pair. It is hard to tell what they are but perhaps they are Diptera of family Tipulidae (crane flies). It is difficult to be certain from the blurry photo without any indication of size.

Adam.
Topic: May I know what is this insect with spotted pattern? | Author: unagime | Replies: 2 | Views: 33
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May I know what is this insect with spotted pattern?

by unagime » Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:51 am

The picture is in the attached file!! Found this insect on the wall of my singapore house, it was really long at first but when i tried to catch it, it separated into 2 parts (but it looks like there were actually 2 insects joined together in the first place) and become a smaller one like in the picture.
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