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Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Annarobertson1947 » Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:20 pm

wollastoni wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:05 am There are 2 important rules in taxonomy :

#1 : you have to follow the latest publication. So in this case Bouyer 2023. (We now have scientific techniques like DNA analysis we didn't have in 2009).
#2 : InsectNet members are always right, so once again, you have to follow Bouyer 2023 (@africaone on this forum). :lol: :lol: :lol:
🤔 well im afraid I'm not going to follow either of these rules
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Annarobertson1947 » Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:17 pm

Thanks for this detailed information.
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 168
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by Jshuey » Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:14 pm

jhyatt wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:05 pm Are the new one and spatulata sympatric? No difference at all in wing morphology? Seems like a pretty subtle difference to hang a new name on... wonder what DNA analysis might show? That'd at least be a 2nd character to consider.

Nice work,
jh
Yes, the potential new one is sympatric with both spatulata and 6 other species that cannot be separated by wing pattern alone. The biggest wing pattern element that differs between species is tail length! And most of these species have at best, subtlety different genetalia (see below). The potential new species is actually easier to separate than most of the others. All four of the species below are sympatric with the potential new one.

John

Topic: LepSoc meeting @Cornell 14-18 July who's going? | Author: Chuck | Replies: 2 | Views: 136
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Re: LepSoc meeting @Cornell 14-18 July who's going?

by Jshuey » Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:14 pm

I am not, at this time, pondering attendance.

John
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 168
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by kevinkk » Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:47 pm

It's about time. Except possibly for Star Trek, The Simpsons is the greatest tv show of all time. There is a Simpsons episode for every facet of modern
life.
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 168
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by Chuck » Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:10 pm

I think lisimpsonia is a great idea!

John Tennent told me he tried to get Polyura thane pushed through; the reviewers couldn't figure out what he was up to, but knew he was up to something, so wouldn't approve. Snobs.

I threatened to name a new butterfly tennentisapennis but he said he'd kill me. For another bug, I'd suggested naming it for one of my collaborators with "rex" appended to his/ the species name. That didn't go either.

I say do it; if there's that many species, what are you going to name them all based on- color?
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 168
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Re: Cartoon name for new species?

by jhyatt » Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:05 pm

Are the new one and spatulata sympatric? No difference at all in wing morphology? Seems like a pretty subtle difference to hang a new name on... wonder what DNA analysis might show? That'd at least be a 2nd character to consider.

Nice work,
jh
Topic: Cartoon name for new species? | Author: Jshuey | Replies: 6 | Views: 168
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Cartoon name for new species?

by Jshuey » Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:51 pm

I have a bug that I'm about 90% sure is a new one. It's in a genus (Aguna - Hesperiidae) where adults are mostly indistinguishable from one another, until of course, you dissect them.

Well, I've dissected about 70 of them recently, and have stumbled on three definite new species, plus this one. Turns out that there 13 (or 14) species present in NE Peru - pretty amazing! It's distinguishing characteristics are the little sclerotized knob on the harp and the gear-like ampulla that looks exactly like Lisa Simpson's hair-do that sits on top of the harp. I suggested to my wife that I name it after Lisa - and she thinks it's a stupid idea. Something like lisimpsonia.

What do you think? I'm still not entirely convinced that it is new - it looks a lot like A. spatulata. But I have three of the potentially new ones, and seven spatulata - and the differences are very consistent (but minor).

John
LISA SIMPSON


Aguna spatulata
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by adamcotton » Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:49 am

wollastoni wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:05 am #1 : you have to follow the latest publication. So in this case Bouyer 2023. (We now have scientific techniques like DNA analysis we didn't have in 2009).
Actually both the 2009 and 2023 classifications are based on DNA analysis to build a tree. Trees have been built from the results of DNA analysis since the 1990s, but sequencing techniques have improved considerably.

Adam.
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by adamcotton » Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:44 am

wollastoni wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:05 am There are 2 important rules in taxonomy
I am not sure I agree with these 'rules' exactly ;) , particularly in relation to generic classification.

Separation of two or more groups into two or more genera is basically subjective as long as each genus is monophyletic (all species in the genus are derived from the same common ancestor). This was the problem with Charaxes and Polyura, since the Polyura clade is nested within Charaxes.

There are two ways to solve a problem like this and neither is actually 'right' or 'wrong':
1. Include the whole clade in a single genus
or
2. Separate each sub-clade into a different genus so that each one represents a branch containing species which are all derived from a common ancestor.

So '1.' was the method used when Polyura was included in Charaxes and '2.' was the solution adopted by Bouyer (2023) to maintain Polyura as a separate genus, which at the same time necessitated separation of other species groups into different genera.

Generic classification is somewhat different to that of species in that it uses different criteria. The separation of species can be tested in different ways which hopefully give a 'same/different species' result.

Adam.
Topic: Papilio elephenor | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 3 | Views: 155
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Re: Papilio elephenor

by wollastoni » Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:08 am

There is a "Make an offer" button. Nobody will pay so much for elephenor, don't worry.
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by wollastoni » Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:05 am

There are 2 important rules in taxonomy :

#1 : you have to follow the latest publication. So in this case Bouyer 2023. (We now have scientific techniques like DNA analysis we didn't have in 2009).
#2 : InsectNet members are always right, so once again, you have to follow Bouyer 2023 (@africaone on this forum). :lol: :lol: :lol:
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Annarobertson1947 » Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:04 am

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions, greatly appreciated.
Now I'm having to ask this next question knowing that it will have two different types of viewers.
So, what I'm querying is we have splitters and lumpers exemplified by Thierry Bouyer in his paper on Charaxini 2023 and Kwaku Aduse-Poku, Vingerhoedt and Walberg 2009.
All eminent in their fields of study.
All highly respected authorities on Nymphalidae.
So, who is correct?
Both views are at opposite ends of discussion on what makes up the seperate genus of charaxini.
Any suggestions???
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by adamcotton » Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:29 pm

Now I know where it was described I was able to make a copy of the photos as I have the book.

Here it is:
Polyura dehanii carabus.jpg
Polyura dehanii carabus.jpg (147 KiB) Viewed 270 times
Adam.
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Annarobertson1947 » Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:57 pm

benihikage92 wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:06 am Polyura dehanii carabus was described by Etsuzo Tsukada in his Butterflies of the South East Asian Islands, Part V, Nymphalidae (II) back in 1991.
My thanks for your help, i dont suppose you have access to a photo of the male of this ssp?
I know thee female and really would like to compare with nominate.
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by livingplanet3 » Sun Mar 24, 2024 5:39 pm

Euxanthe spp. (which are also Charaxinae) have larvae with similarly elaborate head capsules -

Euxanthe wakefieldi:

Image

Image

And here is the caterpillar of Charaxes bernardus:

Image
Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/itchydogi ... 0714940952
Topic: Tiger Beetles Zoom Meeting | Author: 58chevy | Replies: 1 | Views: 66
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Tiger Beetles Zoom Meeting

by 58chevy » Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:16 pm

ABF zoom presentation on Tiger Beetles of Texas
Monday, March 25 @ 7 PM central time

Mike Quinn via listserv.uh.edu
Mar 23, 2024, 10:39 PM (11 hours ago)
to TX-BUTTERFLY

Greetings,

Dr. C. Barry Knisley will present to the Austin Butterfly Forum on

TIGER BEETLES; BIOLOGY, CONSERVATION, AND DIVERSITY IN TEXAS

Monday, March 25 @ 7 PM central time

Link to launch zoom meeting
bit.ly/4au7t27

(link to meeting will open around 6:30 central for those wishing to visit with our speaker ahead of time.)

ABF meetings are open to all, but joining us will ensure notifications of future meetings.
https://brianabel.github.io/AustinButte ... rship.html


INTRODUCTION: Tiger beetles have been called 'the butterflies of the beetle world' due to their great beauty and the fact that there are numerous wonderful field guides with superb photographs or drawings as well as distribution maps. These factors make tiger beetles popular with many naturalists who in turn contribute much important data to scientists. The Austin Butterfly Forum is most pleased to have Dr. Barry Knisley speak to us about aspects of his life of tiber beetle research and conservation.


TITLE: TIGER BEETLES; BIOLOGY, CONSERVATION, AND DIVERSITY IN TEXAS

BIO: Dr. C. Barry Knisley, Wornom Professor Emeritus of Biology at Randolph-Macon College, received a B.S. in Zoology and Entomology from Penn State University and an M.S. and Ph.D. in Entomology from Rutgers University. He began his 40 years of teaching in liberal arts colleges with the first 10 years at Franklin College of Indiana. With the opportunity for teaching courses more related to his area of expertise and pursuing research on tiger beetles, he joined the biology department at Randolph-Macon College in 1979. He has taught entomology, ecology, and a field course in desert biology in the southwest and tropical biology in Costa Rica. Most significant was his development of a field biology program and a requirement for biology majors to conduct an independent research project. His 50 years of research has focused on the biology and conservation of tiger beetles, resulting in over 80 co-authored papers and 5 books (Field Guides to Species of the South Atlantic States, 1997, and Field Guide to Species of U. S. and Canada, 2015, Tiger Beetles of New Mexico, 2023). He has conducted most of the research for 4 of the 5 tiger beetles currently on the Endangered Species list and continues to be active in tiger beetle conservation throughout the U. S. A primary goal of listing tiger beetles has been to insure the protection of significant natural areas for the tiger beetle and other species. He has worked closely with various government and private groups on tiger beetle conservation. His studies have been funded by the USFWS, Maryland DNR, National Park Service, BLM and various private conservation groups. Much of his research since the late 1980s has involved monitoring and research on the Northeastern Beach and Puritan Tiger Beetles in Maryland and Virginia. He was one of the founding members and past president of the Virginia Natural History Society.


Mike Quinn, vp programs
Austin Butterfly Forum
entomike@gmail.com
512-577-0250 - cell
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by livingplanet3 » Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:46 pm

While on the topic of Charaxes/Polyura - the larvae of these butterflies are known as dragon-headed caterpillars; here are some nice photos of the larva of P. hebe -

Image

Image

Image

Source: https://alphynix.tumblr.com/post/682894 ... -butterfly
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by Annarobertson1947 » Sat Mar 23, 2024 12:00 pm

Thank you for this information, really appreciated
Topic: Rarities in Charaxes | Author: Annarobertson1947 | Replies: 40 | Views: 1036
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Re: Rarities in Charaxes

by benihikage92 » Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:06 am

Polyura dehanii carabus was described by Etsuzo Tsukada in his Butterflies of the South East Asian Islands, Part V, Nymphalidae (II) back in 1991.