InsectNet forum

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:25 am

My friend asked me to say thank you for replies. He also pointed out that Gardiner (1982 - A Silkmoth Rearer's Handbook, 3rd Edition) on p. 126 states the size of Coscinocera hercules as 250-360 mm, although Gardiner doesn't say how this was measured. If that is a maximum 360 mm wingspan it would be wider than T. agrippina.

Adam.

laurie2 · by laurie2 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:48 pm

adamcotton wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:16 pm D'Abrera (1982) illustrated 2 females. The GART/GloBIS project photographed a pair in the BMNH Type collection which are not the same specimens as those in D'Abrera's book (I have copies of these photos), but these are not available on the Papilio krishna page of the GloBIS website
http://www.globis.insects-online.de/spe ... ree_seq=11

I have not seen any other specimens apart from those in BMNH. Shimogori (1997) did not illustrate this subspecies in his Achillides book.

Adam.

A photo sent to me by my good friend the late Danny Burk

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:16 pm

D'Abrera (1982) illustrated 2 females. The GART/GloBIS project photographed a pair in the BMNH Type collection which are not the same specimens as those in D'Abrera's book (I have copies of these photos), but these are not available on the Papilio krishna page of the GloBIS website
http://www.globis.insects-online.de/spe ... ree_seq=11

I have not seen any other specimens apart from those in BMNH. Shimogori (1997) did not illustrate this subspecies in his Achillides book.

Adam.

livingplanet3 · by livingplanet3 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:00 pm

According to G. Beccaloni (2010), T. agrippina reaches a wingspan of 308 mm (record specimen in a private collection, Ontario), and C. hercules a wingspan of 290.2 (record specimen in the Queensland Museum, Brisbane). C. hercules has the largest wing area of any lepidopteran however, at 288 cm² (estimate made from the record specimen).

Paul K · by Paul K » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:54 pm

I suppose your friend is correct.
T.agrippina is considered the largest Lepidoptera as per wingspan.
I have a specimen which only has 20cm but supposedly they are examples close to 30cm!

Paul K · by Paul K » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:40 pm

Chuck wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:08 pm Note that if the origin of the specimens are Canada, you will probably also need Canadian export approvals. If the specimens have only transited Canada, ummm I don't know. If the specimens are CITES you'll need a CITES from origin and CITES from Canada.

I don’t think there are regulations on export of insects from Canada. I sent few times and declare dry dead insects with no problems. There are simply no laws on both in and out except of course CITES species and protected species.
All Papilionidae in Ontario are protected, other provinces are fine. Apparently there was a good scientific reason to protect all Papilios even though most are very common.
The reason: “they are beautiful butterflies”, very scientific as you can tell.

Chuck · by Chuck » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:08 pm

Short answer: don't bother.

Yes, when importing into USA, even from Canada, one must declare at customs and submit a USFWS 3-177. You will also need a USFWS importers license. Note that if the origin of the specimens are Canada, you will probably also need Canadian export approvals. If the specimens have only transited Canada, ummm I don't know. If the specimens are CITES you'll need a CITES from origin and CITES from Canada.

Some years ago there was (on the archived forum) discussion that there was some "collector's loophole" that allowed import into USA w/o being a licensed USFWS (you still needed to submit 3-177.) I never went back to study CFR to see if this is real or not. This, of course, doesn't change anything concerning export from Canada.

Paul brings up a good (sad) point on importing: when transiting an intermediary country with dead insects, it's not uncommon that one must clear customs and head to another terminal for departure. In that case, you've entered that country, and must clear customs- meaning, you are importing for however short a time, and thus need to comply with all the import/export regulations of the intermediary country. As per Paul's example, one could lose all their specimens.

I too came very close to losing thousands of scientifically valuable specimens when I suddenly found I had to exit an airport only to re-enter. Only because it was late at night at the CITES office didn't answer the phone, and because the customs officer had a shred of common sense and dignity was I allowed through with these specimens and a stern warning that they'd better not show up in their commercial market.

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:04 pm

A friend who works at the Entomology Museum, Bangkok, asked me to post on the forum about the moth with the largest wingspan in the world. He was asked by a schoolboy on a trip to the museum, and would like to be able to give the correct answer. He realises that wingspan of a dead specimen depends on how it is spread.

As far as he has found out Coscinocera hercules should be the largest in wing area but other sources state that Thysania agrippina has the largest wingspan. He was surprised to read that T. agrippina could be larger so he asked me to post the question on Insectnet.

Adam.

hewi · by hewi » Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:55 pm

does anyone have P. krishna manipuri Tytler, 1939 in the collection ?
I have never seen a specimen of this ssp.
I only know the illustration by D'Abrera

Paul K · by Paul K » Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:42 am

thejsonboss wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:42 pm Does anyone know if you need to fill out that USFWS export form if driving over the border from CAN to US?

As far as I remember Canada is not part of USA.
Sometimes I would want to but if it comes to import insects US is a nightmare where I’m glad Canada is not participating in such madness ( at least so far and I hope it’ll stay that way).
I suppose you don’t need to do paper work but you may end up leaving customs empty.

I almost lost all my insect due to this “laws” while transferring planes from French Guiana to Toronto via Miami as I of course didn’t fill up any of those forms.

vabrou · by vabrou » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:18 am

Thanks Adam

Vernon

thejsonboss · by thejsonboss » Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:42 pm

Does anyone know if you need to fill out that USFWS export form if driving over the border from CAN to US?

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:32 pm

Putting the link in the subject line doesn't enable it to be clicked on.

This works:

https://www.academia.edu/96051394/ABITA ... STUDY_SITE

Adam.

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:28 pm

This and the original specimen above are spring form males, which are really vivid but actually quite small, especially compared to the summer form.

The name jezoensis is a junior synonym. Japanese maackii is either placed in subspecies tutanus or that is considered a synonym of nominate maackii depending on opinion.

Adam.

livingplanet3 · by livingplanet3 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:19 pm

A beautiful photo of a live P. maackii -

Also, see this amazing, captive-reared example of maackii posted by mokky last June -

viewtopic.php?p=1156#p1156

Paul K · by Paul K » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:35 pm

Trehopr1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:16 am
Did you happen to pick up any of the nice day flying moths present there in Thailand and Laos ? If you did could you show us some of them ?

Yes, I collected some day flying moths in both countries.
I will post some photos when I get around to take them.

vabrou · by vabrou » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:01 pm

Abita Entomological Study Site -The most intensely studied entomological location in North America (USA, Canada, and Mexico)

Link here to no charge freely available access to 51-page pdf - a brief synopsis of a lifetime of collecting insects 24 hours daily/nightly non-stop using nearly 500 automatic-capture insect traps in the state of Louisiana, USA, and still continuing today into year 54 (2023).

Over 53 years (1969-2022) numerous dozens of self-designed automatic-capture high-wattage light traps were operated for 1,390,000 light trap-hours, hundreds of semiochemical lure traps were operated for 32,400,000 trap-hours, dozens of fermenting fruit bait traps were operated for 1,270,000 trap-hours, more than 100 dung beetle traps were operated 15,341,000 trap-hours, and malaise traps were operated 10,800 trap-hours, on and on. For 41 years (1981-2022) all of these various traps were operated continuously 24 hours every day, 365-366 days every year at the AESS and were similarly and continuously operated elsewhere across Louisiana over 53 years. Images of a few of these traps are illustrated (Figs. 4-13) along with numerous dozens of entomological collecting related images.

451 entomological publications were published between (1969-2022) documenting just some of the notable discoveries and accomplishments during our lifetime of entomological research, including adding over 3,000 additional species added to the earlier documented species of Lepidoptera known for the state, and documenting dozens of new first records of Lepidoptera species for the USA and North America, and also noting some descriptions of many lepidoptera species new to science.

Citation:
Brou Jr., Vernon A. and Charlotte Dozar Brou 2022. Abita Entomological Study Site. South. Lepid. News 44: 409-460.

chrisw · by chrisw » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:34 pm

adamcotton wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:30 pm Looking more closely at the second male, it looks more like P. chikae based on the spatulate tails. You should check the forewing underside, in hermeli the apical and subapical areas are strongly suffused with grey scales, whereas in chikae these scales are more diffuse, except near the tornal angle.

Some years ago, when hermeli was not included in CITES appendix 1, local dealers were selling specimens of chikae as hermeli since they could not export chikae. Apparently it was easier for them to obtain specimens of chikae than hermeli.

Adam.

Adam, I will take a picture of the underside of both and post them for determination.

Trehopr1 · by Trehopr1 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:02 pm

Good eye Dave !

Lovely examples of this spectacular genera.

livingplanet3 · by livingplanet3 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:39 pm

Indeed, quite spectacular!

InsectNet forum

InsectNet forum

Re: largest moth wingspan question

Re: Papilio krishna

Re: Papilio krishna

Re: largest moth wingspan question

Re: largest moth wingspan question

Re: Canada to US?

Re: Canada to US?

largest moth wingspan question

Re: Papilio krishna

Re: Canada to US?

Re: https://www.academia.edu/96051394/ABITA_ENTOMOLOGICAL_STUDY_SITE

Re: Canada to US?

Re: https://www.academia.edu/96051394/ABITA_ENTOMOLOGICAL_STUDY_SITE

Re: Papilio maackii

Re: Papilio maackii

Re: Brahmaea

https://www.academia.edu/96051394/ABITA_ENTOMOLOGICAL_STUDY_SITE

Re: Papilio hermeli

Re: Brahmaea

Re: Papilio maackii