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Re: A parade of Catocala moths
by Trehopr1 » Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:21 pm
Very nice to hear that you have actually picked up a couple of specimens of C. briseis here. I don't know anyone else that has....
Could they have been strays ?
Were their colors too fresh to have been that so, maybe it is just rarely encountered ?
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Re: A parade of Catocala moths
by Trehopr1 » Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:09 pm
The first and second relicta in your photograph are certainly quite unique in their own right. Some wonderful self-collected specimens....
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Re: Moths of North America (MONA) Catocala
by Trehopr1 » Mon Apr 22, 2024 5:55 pm
For all these reasons it made a lot of sense to me. While there may still be some OUTSTANDING individuals who buck this trend; most do not.
This is why any large time consuming projects like Mona fascicles need to be addressed earlier in life (not later) during our intellectual productivity window.
Otherwise, it may well remain a project very much unfinished.
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Re: Moths of North America (MONA) Catocala
by jhyatt » Mon Apr 22, 2024 5:13 pm
Nope, you gotta have the actual book to read Legion of Night.... which I heartily recommend one do. It's a very good read, but sadly the cost has about tripled since I bought my copy - it's now $30 used (from abebooks.com). Personally, I hate trying to read anything longer than a paragraph on a computer anyway!
jh
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Re: A parade of Catocala moths
by mothman55 » Mon Apr 22, 2024 5:12 pm
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Re: A parade of Catocala moths
by mothman55 » Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:50 pm
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Re: Global travel collecting
by Cassidinae » Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:24 pm
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Re: Collecting in Vietnam
by Cassidinae » Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:08 pm
How it is in Vietnam I can't publish here The only positive thing about Vietnam (as far as insect exports are concerned) is that the law enforcement associated with it is not as radical as in, say, India, Ceylon, or Turkey.nikiahloch wrote: βMon Apr 22, 2024 1:44 am
I know export from Vietnam isn't banned. I purchase insects from private dealers all the time over there and they always show up
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Re: Moths of North America (MONA) Catocala
by Chuck » Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm
John, thanks for flagging that. I was sadly unable to find it online and available to read.jhyatt wrote: βMon Apr 22, 2024 2:10 pmChuck, for some illustration of how bad things can occasionally get, see Chapter 1 of T. Sargent's "Legion of Night: The Underwing Moths" (U. Mass Press, 1976). His quotes from the fights involving Grote, Strecker, Hulst, and others in the 1870's are a real hoot to read!Chuck wrote: βMon Apr 22, 2024 12:10 pm As Vernon pointed out and solely about MONA, the inconsiderate and unethical activities by professionals isn't new. I too have had my issues with those types in Entomology (to be fair, I've also been overjoyed with others.) Backstabbing and politicing in entomology is NOTHING- I think the Paleontologists make the worst entomologists look like amateurs.
There was a period, say 1950s-1990s when entomology was "more polite."
Cheers,
jh
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Re: Research position in Costa Rica!
by papiliotheona » Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:26 pm
You're the man, Ed!EdTomologist wrote: βMon Apr 22, 2024 5:24 amI just got back two days ago from a 5 month collecting trip in Costa Rica. Permits are very easy to get and they take about a month from start to finish. I even spent time within some well known national parks collecting. Permits involve filling out a form, getting a support letter, and emailing that along with your project proposal to the individual in charge of your collecting area. there are several conservation areas that the country is divided into. You can also just send it to the director and they can help you get permits from multiple areas if you don't want to apply to each area individually. They really are pro research so it was a breeze getting my permits for multiple areas. Now for export permits that's a little more involved but still 100% possible if you apply at least 30 days before you export.papiliotheona wrote: βThu Jan 11, 2024 9:55 pm I don't see how this is worth it unless you get a collecting permit while you are under their employment, and CR is one of the toughest countries around.
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Re: Moths of North America (MONA) Catocala
by jhyatt » Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:10 pm
Chuck, for some illustration of how bad things can occasionally get, see Chapter 1 of T. Sargent's "Legion of Night: The Underwing Moths" (U. Mass Press, 1976). His quotes from the fights involving Grote, Strecker, Hulst, and others in the 1870's are a real hoot to read!Chuck wrote: βMon Apr 22, 2024 12:10 pm As Vernon pointed out and solely about MONA, the inconsiderate and unethical activities by professionals isn't new. I too have had my issues with those types in Entomology (to be fair, I've also been overjoyed with others.) Backstabbing and politicing in entomology is NOTHING- I think the Paleontologists make the worst entomologists look like amateurs.
There was a period, say 1950s-1990s when entomology was "more polite."
Cheers,
jh
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2022 new ssp of P. bianor
by adamcotton » Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:01 pm
The citation is:
Hitoshi Arita & Yasushi Sorimachi 2022. Description of a new subspecies of Papilio bianor Cramer, [1777] from Kerama Islands, Okinawa, Japan. Gekkan-Mushi, 620: 27-29.
Of course this taxon does not actually belong to Papilio bianor but is a subspecies of P. ryukyuensis and was named keramana by Arita & Sorimachi.
A few days ago I was made aware of this by a collector who bought one on eBay and asked me about it. I have just received the original description so can confirm the details here.
Adam.
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Re: Research position in Costa Rica!
by Chuck » Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:58 pm
Would love to see some photos from CR.
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Re: Moths of North America (MONA) Catocala
by Chuck » Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:10 pm
Now, ring lights are $30, 15Mpix images, photoshop, and MS Word; publications search and retrieval in seconds online; email collaboration and proofing. Instead of loaning specimens, in many cases photos work. Ranges and such are quickly established with iNaturalist and BOLD. Stick the images into publishing software, upload the text, hit "print" and get one copy to proof. OMG.
Of course, the taxonomy isn't so easy now. It's generally expected that genetic analysis is done; arguably no more "opinion." Plus getting access to genetic analysis is expensive, particularly for those without institutional support/ grants.
The dedicated few, no matter what field of study, manage to pull off reference books- or, now, websites. Sharing of knowledge is critical, it's your legacy; so much knowledge dies with the owner, never recorded.
Human nature being considerate? Shakleton wouldn't agree. As Vernon pointed out and solely about MONA, the inconsiderate and unethical activities by professionals isn't new. I too have had my issues with those types in Entomology (to be fair, I've also been overjoyed with others.) Backstabbing and politicing in entomology is NOTHING- I think the Paleontologists make the worst entomologists look like amateurs.
There was a period, say 1950s-1990s when entomology was "more polite." All part of the "everyone gets an opinion" movement. The first published all-out assault that I can think of was Tennent's against D'Abrera, and was wholly justified. Since then, and as of late, I find relief when knowledgeable authorities publish brutal (not polite) reviews of others' works- it's about time. Quit dancing around the bush. Everyone may be entitled to their own opinion, but they're not entitled to their own facts.
Is there a place for new MONA? Who's going to pay for them, and how many? And, while it's true that every reference book has errors and is outdated on the day of publication, the rate of change now is outrageous. Plus, there's the internet for now, which is fast, easy, and free. However one gets the information out, and clearly despite the sometimes caustic entomological ecosystem, at least some- John, Vernon, Adam- actually do it, and to them we are forever indebted.
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Re: Collecting in Vietnam
by Chuck » Mon Apr 22, 2024 11:46 am
Most foreign organizations don't have or won't take the time to respond. They leave it to you and/or your local agent to arrange.nikiahloch wrote: βMon Apr 22, 2024 1:53 am
I sent an email to the Vietnam Department of Agriculture and still haven't heard back from them and that was 8 months ago, I leave the 30th of this month. I've contacted the US Department of Agriculture and even talked to someone and they said I don't need permits for importing dead insects in the US. I think at this point its a matter of hoping for the best.
USDA has nothing to do with dead insects, they only oversee live insects. Dead insects fall under USFWS.
One does not want to run afoul of Vietnamese officials. Getting caught on the way out with dead insects and no paperwork is going to be, at the least, expensive.
If one elects to "wing it", which I have as sometimes it's the only option, the best approach upon arriving in a foreign country is to find a local who knows the laws and officials, and can help get a permit. Even better is to make contact with a knowledgeable person in VN BEFORE going. Hoping to do it yourself in-country may not be effective, and will cost a fortune in bribe money.
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Re: Research position in Costa Rica!
by EdTomologist » Mon Apr 22, 2024 5:24 am
I just got back two days ago from a 5 month collecting trip in Costa Rica. Permits are very easy to get and they take about a month from start to finish. I even spent time within some well known national parks collecting. Permits involve filling out a form, getting a support letter, and emailing that along with your project proposal to the individual in charge of your collecting area. there are several conservation areas that the country is divided into. You can also just send it to the director and they can help you get permits from multiple areas if you don't want to apply to each area individually. They really are pro research so it was a breeze getting my permits for multiple areas. Now for export permits that's a little more involved but still 100% possible if you apply at least 30 days before you export.papiliotheona wrote: βThu Jan 11, 2024 9:55 pm I don't see how this is worth it unless you get a collecting permit while you are under their employment, and CR is one of the toughest countries around.
Dive into the fascinating world of insects! Explore my blog, Instagram, and website. Don't miss our newsletter and the latest from butterfly adventures!
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Re: A parade of Catocala moths
by billgarthe » Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:06 am
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Re: A parade of Catocala moths
by evra » Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:19 am
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Re: Collecting in Vietnam
by nikiahloch » Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:53 am
I sent an email to the Vietnam Department of Agriculture and still haven't heard back from them and that was 8 months ago, I leave the 30th of this month. I've contacted the US Department of Agriculture and even talked to someone and they said I don't need permits for importing dead insects in the US. I think at this point its a matter of hoping for the best.Chuck wrote: βMon Mar 18, 2024 12:00 pm In short: AFTER obtaining export approval (paperwork) from VN, you need to:
1. Have a USFWS import/ export license
2. File a form 3-177 with the import into USA and pay for an inspection
You can do #2 two ways:
1. via post
2. Schedule an inspection upon arrival at a USFWS-designated airport
#2 is actually safer, since they generally conduct the inspection under your watchful eye. If they process by post, then it may not be handled so carefully. You can also avoid some level of ignorance "no, that's not an Ornithoptera, it's a Pierid. Not everything is an Ornithoptera."
Sending specimens via mail without license and 3-177 is unlawful, no matter which country of origin. Doing so to avoid costs and/ or oversight is smuggling, and is not taken lightly.
Further note for travellers: Customs (not USFWS) may search to see what you're importing for duty purposes. So many travellers play games and mail the receipts ahead, tear them up, etc then import three $10,000 watches as personal goods. That's what gets people in trouble. The duty on most things is so trivial, just declare the value. If it's under a few hundred $$ in duty most Customs officials just waive you through, it's not worth their time. Customs also looks for bootleg items (purses, jackets, etc.) and those they will take.
And about Vietnam: VN was the hotbed of Sapphires (and rubies in Thailand) but in both cases they've been largely tapped out, so what you see in stores are lab made. The Hmong outfits and jewelry you see these days are reproductions, they are not original/ antique- that ship sailed 15 years ago. Wood carvings and such are, like butterflies, USFWS items.
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Re: Collecting in Vietnam
by nikiahloch » Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:45 am
Well, I do know that there are no permits required for the impost of dead insects in the US. I've seen this information on the USDA websitekevinkk wrote: βSat Mar 16, 2024 3:18 pm It may be safe, but it's not legal to send insect material of any sort through the mail without a permit, especially from overseas. That includes sending
material to other countries from the USA. I've already had that argument at the post office.
I've thought that using the mail would be a good option while out of the USA, but it's still smuggling.
The few exceptions are papered natives, or non-native deadstock already here, or the few native ubiquitous
species as living material.