InsectNet forum

kevinkk · by kevinkk » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:01 pm

Great analogy video. Like I've mentioned before, there's a Simpson episode for everything. It's a great clip.
I wonder if that fly made it over the mountains, I recall seeing the gray egg masses everywhere back in the 70's,
tent caterpillars as well, not very common now. Seems like I bought wild collected Papilio pupa from the east that had very similar
looking flies emerge rather than the butterflies.
Amazed a few years back when I first saw dispar being offered at Actias, the larva are colorful-

livingplanet3 · by livingplanet3 » Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:38 pm

The effect that Compsilura concinnata has had on US saturniids has undoubtedly been devastating. It's surely a major reason behind the decline of Hyalophora cecropia in many parts of the east, along with other giant silk moth species. The introduction of biological control agents has far too often led to ecological disasters. One of the best known examples is the release of cane toads in Australia in 1935, in the misguided hope of controlling sugarcane beetles (Dermolepida albohirtum). The small Asian mongoose was brought to Hawaii in the late 1880s in the hope of controlling rats (another pest of sugarcane). The mongoose was more interested in eating the native birds, and sea turtle eggs.

Trehopr1 · by Trehopr1 » Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:18 pm

Here is the primary culprit responsible for the
wholesale demise of saturniid moths in the NE
states.

Of coarse, as alandmor pointed out its also periodic
aerial pesticide sprayings which also contribute to
the overall loss.

The 1861 (introduced) Ailanthus silkmoth (Samia cynthia)
is now very much "restricted" to a few select areas of New
Jersey which are now largely neglected and forgotten
ramparts by the greater population of people. There was
a time when the species range expanded quite a bit from its
original introduction in Philadelphia PA. In 1881, two decades
after the introduction of S. cynthia, their caterpillars were
seen on almost all trees in New York City's central park.

It expanded to CT, MA, MD, DE, and Wash DC to the best
of my knowledge. It is extinct now in Philadelphia where
it was first introduced. It may possibly have a "toe-hold"
presence --- albeit spotty if it exists at all in any of the
above mentioned states.

I believe this fly's range has expanded over the decades to
now include a greater section of the eastern seaboard hence,
more devastation to our Midwest numbers.

It's gotten REALLY tough these last 15-20 years to find any
"wild" cocoons of native silk moths.

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:45 pm

This is a good example why any form of code should not be attached to specimens as an alternative to data. Many old specimens used to (and may still do) have a code on a label which can be accessed by referring to a note book with the full details written there. If the note book is lost, for whatever reason, the specimens lose all their data, and if the owner, for whatever reason, does or can not pass on the note book with the specimens all the data is also lost.

A QR code with a link to a database is jut the modern equivalent of codes on specimen pins which need the note book to decipher.

Adam.

alandmor · by alandmor » Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:49 pm

Wow, very discouraging no to mention distressing. I know some parasitoids released for gypsy moth control (now known as spongy moth) have negatively impacted saturnid populations in the NE. This and aerial spraying for gypsy moth control (which I hear are bad this year in the NE) perhaps are both factors.

alandmor · by alandmor » Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:30 pm

laurie2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 9:53 pm An inspiring read - https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/fly-fly/.

Sounds like a great collection and donation but the NHM, London, has its work cut out for it to put actual data labels on all 20,000 specimens!

"Each of McArthur’s butterflies is accompanied by a tiny printed QR code, and scanning it provides a link to a database that he and a data specialist named Dominique Hawinkels developed, which contains the butterfly’s name as well as the date and location of capture."

Chuck · by Chuck » Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:38 pm

laurie2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 9:53 pm An inspiring read - https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/fly-fly/.

That's brilliant and touching. As difficult as it was, he picked the right time to let it go. I suppose it's easier just to contact the institution and say "come get it all."

My plan is to need some of it for future work- but which? I never seem to know where the winds of research will take me. And some of it exists in most every significant institution, so why not let other collectors enjoy them?

Vernon cited the financial valuation (by others) of his collection. Oddly enough, I'm sure I'd never get back a fraction of what it cost to compile mine. At a number of institutions that take in collections the donated drawers, setting boards, etc are offered for free to the volunteers; they have no real value except as 2nd hand drawers at best. So while I'd like to recoup some minor bit of my costs, that's not the motivator.

Chuck · by Chuck » Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:29 pm

it implies that 'C' MAY have separated from the glaucus lineage before all the other subgroups

Thanks Adam.

Given that COI tracks some of the MtDNA mutations, is it safe to say that the one specimen (at least) of a long line of generations experienced some level of mutation that it has retained, and not bred back into the glaucus population?

Whether any given mutations are significant or not, I wouldn't know, but I'm not sure it's material.

BUT if 'C' MAY have separated? What other options are there?

adamcotton · by adamcotton » Tue Jul 09, 2024 5:19 pm

Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:37 pm What the heck is C? As I read the tree, it implies that this specimen (at least, presuming it's part of a population) is an archaic offshoot that hasn't evolved in a million years.

No, it implies that 'C' MAY have separated from the glaucus lineage before all the other subgroups and evolved separately (rather than not evolving at all).

The problem is that a tree based on COI alone is often unreliable (but not always), and a combination of a number of mitochondrial and nuclear genes is likely to produce a much more reliable tree, with reliability generally increasing with the number of genes included.

Adam.

Chuck · by Chuck » Tue Jul 09, 2024 5:16 pm

08july24: didn't go out. 1 observed Ontario Co.

09july24: 1 observed, 1 captured (M on Bergamot)
86F/ 30C, 95% high cloud cover

Sweating like I'm in Belize. Weather says it's 53% humidity which isn't unusual but boy does it feel more humid.

It's been a week since I was back on my primary hilltop. Milkweed is now 80% past bloom, Bergamot is in full bloom. Elsewhere, Teasel is just starting, and the yellow cup plant fields have plenty of blooms but I know the Tigers won't move to them for weeks.

The low count of observed Tigers (MST) I attribute to the cloud cover. MST will run away if it gets cloudy or starts to rain. If the sun doesn't come out, they don't come out. Contrast that with glaucus which doesn't seem to care, I've seen them en masse nectaring with black clouds overhead and light rain. For whatever reason, our MST demand sunlight.

bobw · by bobw » Tue Jul 09, 2024 2:00 pm

laurie2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 08, 2024 9:53 pm An inspiring read - https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/fly-fly/.

A couple of years ago, I was actually responsible for cataloguing McArthur's Morphos, and incorporating them into the main collection at the Natural History Museum in London. I now have many of the empty drawers that they came in.

Chuck · by Chuck » Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:37 pm

Question on COI tree; I understand the value (or lack thereof) in COI for establishing species status. So maybe I'm reading into this too much. Please clarify for me.

Group A, I know, is good old ordinary Papilio glaucus.

Group B is a sub-population that's regionally restricted and morphologically distinctive.

What the heck is C? As I read the tree, it implies that this specimen (at least, presuming it's part of a population) is an archaic offshoot that hasn't evolved in a million years.

Chuck · by Chuck » Tue Jul 09, 2024 12:00 pm

I'm now over 20 years lighting at one location and 2024 is the worst. Not because of weather, that's actually been good compared to the past two years. But the Sphingids and Saturnids have crashed to near nothing.

Once common species have virtually disappeared:

luna: 3 this entire year, I used to get 5-6/ night.

promethea: replaced by angulifera / hybrid starting 10 years ago, haven't seen one in years; used to get 20-30 males/ night.

angulifera: one last night, a female, that's it. 5+ years ago it would be 4-5 / night.

polyphemus: 3 so far all year. Used to be 5+/ night.

io: 1 so far. I'd typically get 5-10/year.

Sphinxes are gone almost.

Darapsa: maybe 5 this year; typically 10/night.

abbotti: 0 this year; typically 2-3/night. Last year though they were here.

nessus: 0 this year; I've seen a couple nectaring during the day though. Typically 2-3/night.

The rest of the Sphingidae- nothing.

I run either MV or BLB, depending on the weather. I wonder if MV bulbs wear out?

I still get a lot of Arctiinae and Catocala, those don't seem to have changed. So what's with the Saturnidae and Sphingidae? On a good, warm night I used to sit out by the light with my net because I'd be busy; now, I sit inside and watch for shadows against the sheet. In the morning I beat the bluejays before sunup and nothing...lots of little stuff but none of the larger moths.

vabrou · by vabrou » Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:50 am

Over the past 10 years I have been offered for my collection (1,2,3). This is a collection of strictly Louisiana insects, especially lepidoptera ~500,000 adults.
1. $70,000.00
2. $100,000.00
3. $100.000.00

Then I have also been visited dozens of times by Museum curators/managers over the past 50 years who's purpose for the visit was to convince me, face to face, to donate it to their museums gratis.

This is what I told the person who made the last offer of $100,000.00-- Ok, that sounds great, that will cover the 800+ Cornell-size drawers and the cabinets to hold them and the 200+ schmidt boxes and hundreds of foam bottom pinning boxes and the 500,000 pins holding the specimens. But what about the 500,000 specimens themselves which includes 4920+ Types, Allotypes, Paratypes, Topotypes, numerous new species including many hundreds still undescribed in scientific literature. Then the are a half century of unique specimens as several bilateral gyndromorphs, and numerous aberrants, and a worldwide one-off specimen of Catocala agrippina which is a bilateral gynandromorph and an aberrant as well (I have pasted a jpg of this unique species. I have also pasted a plate of Feltia subterranea from my 2021 published species account illustrating morphotype variations from Louisiana, including a bilateral gynandromorph (Fig. 1a).

In the past (37 years ago) I sold my world Sphingidae collection of ~40,000 specimens, 800+ species from 120 countries (private sale to a museum curator) and currently I also have a collection of around 10,000 adult moths of the genus Eudocima from 42 countries of the world.

livingplanet3 · by livingplanet3 » Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:48 pm

The Lantanas I planted several months ago are doing well. Here are some photos of various cultivars I have. All are varieties of Lantana camara, except for the purple one, which is L. montevidensis (last photo). Earlier in the season, it was mostly small nymphalids that were coming to them, but in recent weeks, the most frequent visitors are P. cresphontes and B. philenor. I've also seen a P. glaucus or two on them.

laurie2 · by laurie2 » Mon Jul 08, 2024 9:53 pm

An inspiring read - https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/fly-fly/.

Chuck · by Chuck » Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:32 pm

Thanks for the idea hopr.

I used to do the LA show, and it was great. Not only did I get some fabulous specimens but I was able to unload all my unwanteds- morphos, Caligos, 1970s commercial (wild caught) Papilio, etc. It was a financially lucrative event.

Perhaps I can compile some drawers and post photos of those...time, it's just time...

livingplanet3 · by livingplanet3 » Mon Jul 08, 2024 7:31 pm

It's old news, but somehow, I'd completely missed the fact that a stray Archaeoprepona demophon was sighted in South TX, years ago -

https://bugguide.net/node/view/160012

Trehopr1 · by Trehopr1 » Mon Jul 08, 2024 4:09 pm

Chuck,

Perhaps if you let us know what you have in the way of "baubles"to sell off you will attract more attention.

Interested parties can then PM you for more details or possible photographs.

For example just give us a short list of what's available.

2 drawers large Cerambycidae
1 drawer of Caligo
3 drawers of US Saturniidae

Indicate whether you wish to sell the entire contents of each drawer ONLY or if you are willing to sell selections based on a person's interest.

You could also indicate the specimens may be picked up in person or if any mailing is involved the mailing cost are absorbed by the buyer; and ONLY if the specimens have been paid for 1st. Also, indicate all necessary precautions are taken to prevent damage but that you are not responsible for damages incurred by mail service.

I think these are all fair and reasonable expectations and you are bound to get some interest. It's worth a try rather than take a costly trip to California next spring "loaded for bear" and with the uncertainty of how much you may actually sell there. Other competitive vendors may eat into any of your potential offerings.

Just my thoughts....

Chuck · by Chuck » Mon Jul 08, 2024 3:33 pm

I'm still struggling with what to part with, and what to keep. I would like to get rid of the now-collectible baubles, and rather sell than donate. Perhaps I should do the LA Bug Show next spring.

I did reach out to one collector with a massive collection, but he seems to think he has all the rarer Papilio and large beetles (that he has all that I have, I doubt.)

Overall, downsizing has been lucrative. The stuff we've sold, some of which is now antique, has turned good revenue. It's what to do with the darned insects that's the problem. And yet, I still find myself in the field and running MV lights.

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